Springbok rugby player Joe Van Niekerk and Lenerd Louw on life, awakening and men’s sexuality

It’s an absolute privilege and an

honor today to be with Lenerd Louw

Yes brother thank you so much

for for this meeting today thanks man

thanks to you

it’s beautiful being here it’s wonderful chatting

I just want to tell

the viewers out there and our friends

and Families

and how this meeting came about I was

staying here in Scarborough I’ve been

out from Costa Rica and I’ve been here

for about the last five months now I

came out to Scarborough and I was

staying with a friend and her name is

Nicole and she started we somehow got

speaking about life and about Tantra and

about

the beauty of this life and your name

came up and she mentioned that she’d

been reading your book

and I had you know had thoughts oh and

she said I really want to meet him I

really want to meet him

so subsequently thereafter we were down

in the cafe I think on a Sunday and I

walked into the cafe and I saw you yeah

and it does this I linked eyes with you

and it was just this recognition that I

feel you know I feel with certain humans

and what for me that is it’s this it’s

the deeper

um kind of recognition of the South and

the love that was exuding from you was a

recognition within me and then

thereafter I realized oh it was Leonard

and that I’d heard your name before and

had Snippets about the book so I just

want to say thank you so much for being

here today and also uh for here to to

share the wisdom you know that you

you’ve gone through so many trials and

tribulations in your life I think pretty

similar to mine in some ways and that’s

what I find so fascinating is this this

inner transformation that takes place

and and if you could share

and some of that uh what what you feel

is in your heart not to share would be a

lot amazing oh what’s up man yeah I know

it was super cool there yet I’ll ask a

favorites it’s just down down the hill

here from me I walk through little

garden pass to get there uh and uh yeah

those are like a connecting there and

like chatting and as we were talking you

were like [ __ ] you look familiar right

yeah and when you talk a little bit

about rugby and I said what’s your name

[ __ ] man and I’m really a big fan of

your rugby it’s got some awesome prize

and I love rugby you know you know you

know

iconic man so that’s also for my for me

you know beautiful you know so beautiful

to connect in that way and it’s uh it’s

the same I could see that Inner Glow In

You

um so that’s beautiful

yeah that’s been uh

you know that we’re chatting a little

bit earlier our Journeys in some way

quite similar in a way you know

um

from being out there in the world that

everyone would perceive as being very

successful you know so I was like a CEO

of a

of a of an insurance Club Direct

Insurance Company you know and um

already in my early 40s and um

everyone looking at that is like really

being very successful as you were also

sharing earlier about you know your

rugby career you know we won’t do it

doesn’t want to be a supreme book rugby

player well especially in South Africa

you know and um also reaching that

Pinnacle so in a way both of us reaching

us Pinnacles and then okay thinking wow

there must be more I would love to to

hear you also talk more about that but

then yeah for me specifically

it was you know getting to that and it

was all cool and I enjoyed the journey

but then at a point it became like

there’s something different now and I

enjoyed I enjoyed like I’m sure you

enjoyed your your rugby career I enjoyed

the business time and I enjoyed building

those businesses and it was fun it was

exciting but then it changed you know

early 40s it changed it was like okay

I’ve been there done that now it’s great

it’s not taking anything away from that

beautiful

journey and fun and was always like

really Maverick businesses and it was

really

consumer focus and heart centered I was

really pretty and we went to to work

like this you know so it was pretty

pretty chilled

but it was just that there was a big

inner shift happening you know inside me

and it was just this voice that said

there’s something new out there you know

and that led to this whole spiritual

journey and learning and Awakening and

you know my journey is almost in in your

journey I think it’s also it’s just a

reflection of of almost everyone’s

Journey now it’s just vast Awakening

happening and was

in a journey is happening

so yeah I think that’s just that’s just

what’s rapidly increasing across the

planet

um so for me it was really then

yeah I distracted myself for a few years

with with six drugs jacuzzis and so

it was great you know and uh but then

eventually I I surrendered I mean [ __ ] I

I have to you know change something for

me it was clear out all of the olds to

allow the new to come in that’s when I

resigned uh salt and gave away

almost all my possessions about a

backpack and a one-way ticket to Lima

and Peru

oh

that’s what I wanted to ask you on this

right like so what was the was Daylight

was this a gradual Awakening for you or

was it like one moment where you had

like an epiphany epiphany where you

thought this I’m done with this or was

it like a gradual coming to that point

of being like I’m because a lot of

people talk about like The Dark Knight

of the Soul right when you know you’re

doing the same thing over and over

expecting a different result but it

doesn’t arrive and so it’s it very much

for me and that’s what I was fascinating

for me is to to to find out from you did

it did it come over time or was it like

did you wake up one morning you said no

yes and this has got to change now

no it was more it was it was more

gradual right in the end I mean [ __ ] I

have to change now that did happen yeah

but the the voice that came in was was

more gradual it was it was a number of

things changing in my life I mean I

moved from one

uh business I was in Johannesburg just

starting a new business for guys down

here in Cape Town I also have a

four-year relationship ended

um no City new job a lot of stuff and

then also there was a lot of uh you know

a lot of different things happening that

that that that almost set the ground for

that and then

um

but then basically in

the process of then setting up this this

new business was still exciting let go

of it and then as we started progressing

more with it I just went like no I

haven’t done this before you know the

previous business I set up was a proper

beautiful successful business the

previous business it’s now worth you

know but it’s around you know direct

life insurance business the first one is

Africa yes and it was proper successful

business and then now we’re setting up

this new city and it was just like

I’m gonna just copy paste something else

now yeah and I just felt like wow

there’s more to life you know so so it

was more gradual Joe yeah I just had

this realization of like is this really

what I want to do it could be a bit of a

little bit boring and then and then as I

started doing it and you know it was

just me one person by the end it was 500

people there

yeah it’s just like I you know I would

walk on the floor and I just felt ah it

doesn’t feel right it’s nice for you

yeah it shouldn’t be here anymore and it

was proper confusing yeah I can imagine

now you know I’ve studied you know all

this stuff for many years you know

business and law and all of that and

then worked for long in in a business

environment and you get to this point

you know so it’s proper confusing yeah

like you know your particularly career

earning a lot of money you know most

people would then just you know continue

continue on yeah you continue on you

know it’s just normal it’s natural it’s

of income coming in you know and you’re

settled you’ve proven yourself but you

know it was just that

hey man this I’m still relatively young

there’s a whole life is ahead of me

um and there’s something new I don’t

know what it was I had absolutely no

idea I just knew there’s just this voice

thing to you you should be doing

something different and then that was so

confusing confusing that I then for a

couple of well a year three four years

kind of sat with that and that that

gradual process then went on and it

increased the intensity of the voice

increased yes yes and the more I tried

to distract myself with all my you know

with all the shenanigans with all the

shenanigans yeah I thought I’m gonna

drown this voice out but the voice just

came stronger wow So eventually after

four years it was very much like I just

see exactly one they kind of work up and

away it was December 2012 it’s a super

interesting time period if you look at

the Mayan calendar when I was first

super you know we don’t want to go down

that that will take us on a long

discussion but yeah it was December 22 I

just went like

okay nah and I just I’m surrendering now

yeah I’m gonna it doesn’t make sense to

continue in this process you know I must

just listen to this voice and see what’s

out there and clear out all the old and

see what what’s coming and I had no

realization what would come in not

totally different to what I thought yeah

yeah I just went totally jump off the

cliff into the unknown into the deep

inner Journey

you know out there without any

knowledge of any expectation or insights

of what will come yes it was just an

open open jump into the unknown

it’s unbelievable that you talk about

also that you you know you discarded

your possessions and you and then also I

think what you mentioned too is that you

know we can we can fill our senses to

this point where it’s almost it’s

overbearing on us that you know like

with what as you mentioned chasing the

drugs the woman the this constant thing

that we kind of and that almost as we

for high Achievers which you are one for

sure the person that’s been in those

echelons of like Higher Achievement for

going for things and we I don’t I I can

speak for myself but I almost feel like

the conditioning from very young to be a

success in this world and what we deemed

a success was was that I had the big car

I had the hot chick I had everything at

my disposal and when we get to that we

get to that point we recognize wait but

am I any happier yes um has has this

given me has this given me more in my

life I I feel like more than

understanding that one should be

relinquishing these things as opposed to

becoming the you know chasing it yes in

that way

no exactly and you know often people

chase it then when they get to that

point then they realize like why the

[ __ ] this was you know this is not

giving you what I thought I would get

and you know so and there’s nothing I

are wrong with achieving yeah no there’s

nothing running running a business is

not nothing wrong competing a top in a

sport in a rugby or anything there’s

nothing wrong with it but if that’s if

that’s the only only thing and you think

that is going to give you uh

satisfaction or happiness or meaning in

life it’s not you know yeah it’s not

cool to do that you can have fun with it

but I believe it is deep inner Journey

it’s a deep inner journey to meeting

yourself and you know the deeper you you

meet yourself the deeper you can meet

other people and the deeper you know

they can they can meet you yes well I

could tell you brother that is exactly

you know it’s like exactly what I

recognize in your eyes when I see when I

see that and I recognize that and that

inner Journey that going within is not

for everyone right because as you say

like whether we believe in karma or past

life past lives or reincarnation things

like that that we are a soul and we’re

going through an Incarnation and our

soul is coming closer and closer to God

but we always are with that right but

it’s just that

um it’s just that potentially people are

on different stages in that Evolution

and so as you said there’s nothing wrong

with success or achievement in this

world for going things in this world

there’s nothing wrong with that it’s

it’s great because one must go through

that journey and that’s where the

uniqueness of your journey comes in

right because it’s like I’ve been in

somebody training and I don’t know if

you know the great spiritual teacher

ramdas yes but he talks he talks about

somebody training right yeah and then

when I started to look at that it made

so much sense and I think it’s

comparable to your journey too because

you reached like the height of what you

can reach in terms of business right

like and you had all these things at

your fingertips you had Financial

Freedom you had everything right a

successful billion dollar companies all

the stuff so to get to that point and

then to have that realization that wait

I’ve been in somebody training for how

many 30 40 years of my life right like

to be becoming somebody and what is it

somebody within Society somebody within

uh within the eyes of others

and so that leads you back into what you

just spoke about now what and but but

the one thing I wanted to talk about

about that is the the friction right and

the and the pain that comes with that

the unbearable suffering that comes with

that process because once you realize

like how much we’ve been hurting

ourselves or how much we’re being

ignoring or pushing down the pain or or

or distracting as you mentioned so

things like this how how was that for

you as well in terms of in terms of your

process yeah it was pretty pretty pretty

tough pretty hot pretty hard

um I would love to know after that I

would love to hear how it was for you

man I would love to hear you

your journey there

um no it was pretty tough for me it was

really hard you know I was living in a

beautiful place of the world like you

know like like you have been all around

the world and this this part of the

world is still beautiful Cape Town you

know Atlantic Coast here Atlantic Ocean

and

um but I I didn’t see the beauty in the

stuff anymore yeah I and that’s that’s

so I started as you say you know a lot

of money and then weekends a lot of

women at my place and a lot of fun you

know what most people would go like wow

you’re living the life in an amazing you

know looked all great but there was an

emptiness inside that started happening

and I didn’t have it really before but

it started really happening because I I

was I was actually disconnected for

myself and disconnected from nature and

from I think from my soul from God but

you know what are you going to call it

and then when it really started becoming

it increased that this connection and

then one day I actually writes in my

book about a jump jump in epic soul and

sex Adventure I write about it where my

my rock bottom Clifton Beach Walk and uh

on Saturday I just went on and went for

a walk in the beach [ __ ] Joe after five

minutes I was bored and then I was in

this beautiful beach you know like

beautiful blue sea and a Table Mountain

behind and after five minutes I was like

ah a bit bored now and I’ll go home and

call some people to come over you know

come party and uh then I knew then I

knew I was in big [ __ ] because I you

know I was left nature I always loved

being out there you know and uh when I

realized that I couldn’t see the beauty

around me in this planet I I knew I was

totally disconnected and that was pretty

hard it was really really tough

um like a realization of that like when

you went through that realization you

realized like wait a minute there’s

something something’s off something was

off because I always had a huge

excitement for life when I really had it

you know I’m a teenager at varsity’s

business I was like in you know young

guy and starting in a in because they’re

always you know and but I lost that

excitement it was that inner excitement

was gone and it was

not seeing the beauty of the beautiful

nature around me but also not feeling

you know that inner excitement inside me

and and that was pretty tough that was

like you know like wow there’s something

wrong here and it was almost I always

want to say just to be very vulnerable

direct about it was almost like

I was never kind of I suppose suicidal

but I was very much at a point where I

was thinking uh if I go to die now it’s

okay you know

oh man Natalia I’ve never been that you

know I’ve always been a [ __ ] upbeat

positive guy you know and it was like ah

this is just you know is this it you

know and uh and that’s okay maybe if

things happen now they exit you know the

planet it’s fine you know and when I had

those thoughts I mean no no man that’s

that’s not done it wasn’t even like this

yeah and there’s so much Beauty around

us and beauty and other people and

beauty and myself uh and yeah so I need

to shift something to get that back

yeah and I I definitely can relate to

you on that in terms of you know I just

I I also had similar kind of things

happen towards the end of my career and

I feel like I feel like for me it was

like it was almost because for the last

six months of my career

um I was playing in Toulon and uh and

the coach at the time he pulled me right

out of the mix so he pulled me like from

the integral and captain of the team he

pulled me like right out of the mix and

then even onto the stands so for me that

was like a big hit to my ego basically

and then but that was the Catalyst to

start to research and go into kind of

Buddhist principles around how they

would approach adversity or heart in my

world that was the biggest thing right

at the time but I mean comparatively to

what’s happening in the world it was

nothing it was just my ego and so the

realization of that going through that

process and then recognizing that what

what how I would show up it was the most

important thing so I would go to

training I would hold the bags as best

as I could for that last six months I

was give just as much energy I would go

to the coach every morning and greet him

and give him a smile and say bonjour

coach you know like keep it positive and

and it’s it’s a crazy hard that shifted

things for me personally as much as that

situation was difficult it it shifted

the situation because at the end of that

I was I was I was actually a banner

Laporte who was the minister of sport in

uh in France

and our coach at the time he came to me

and he said Joe for you I’ll I’ll do

anything for you on the last night at

the end of the season when to learn it

won everything it won the European Cup

that won the French league competition

and I didn’t play in either one of those

games right at the end and that night I

remember I was saying to myself I really

just don’t want to party I don’t want to

go out I can’t do this anymore I can’t

put these toxins into my body I can

physically can’t do it but I was like

okay one more for the boys because they

phoned me and I said one more come on so

I went and that night he came to me and

he said

I’ll whatever favor you want you got it

and I was just like okay sweet so it it

showed me that like our positivity and

how we show up and and not losing faith

and if if if if your ego if it is just

your ego it is just your ego right and

those were the the deeper kind of

lookings to see like once I had finished

because I’d gone through that stage of

you know uh like just using my body in

with anti-inflammatories drugs uh

alcohol like just hammering it right and

right up into that last night and the

next day I woke up and I just had

inflammation everywhere and I just

decided in that moment I said that is it

for me and it because I’d been that

voice inside just woke up that became

stronger and stronger and stronger that

would not stop any longer it was it was

too powerful too strong to say I I’m

gonna carry on doing this and so I just

shifted everything in the day and and I

think it two days later I went on to a

21 day juice fast

and just threw myself into that but

it’s just it’s just it’s so fascinating

for me because we do these things you

know we do these we’re involved Within

These in these processes and then the

the actual like the pain and the

suffering that it takes to to look at

those things and also I don’t know if a

theme of yours through the process was

forgiveness

because for me it was it was forgiveness

for myself first okay

um as I’d gone through that process was

one of the first like with plant

medicine was it was the biggest

realization for me was that that I

hadn’t forgiven myself and then also

around trauma that that they’d do a

specific from a trauma of losing my

father when I was 14 years old that that

trauma had been playing out for for like

four for 20 years of my life

without resolving it

you are a wonderful man yeah and what

was the forgiveness if I announced yes

the forgiveness was was was related to

forgiving myself for how I had treated

my body how I treated myself how I

treated others because I’d done things

in the past you know like that that I

wasn’t that weren’t aligned with truth

that were you know things that that at

the time seemed fine but when I got to

that point of like cleaning out

everything I realized like and I and I

may never forget it like it was uh it

was a a seven day Retreat that I was in

with plant medicine okay and uh and it

was funny because when I arrived there

the shaman she was a small Peruvian

woman she looked at me and she said keep

the medicine inside of you I’m like

I’m like what does she mean and then I

like the way that I interpreted it don’t

Purge yeah so then I feel like literally

two ceremonies I’m going through all of

these undescribable emotion and

journeying and journeying and nausea and

all this but I’m not going I’m not

purging I’m not purging and then the

final night I’m there and I’m just again

Max nausea and then sh and then my

brother next to me American dude he just

goes Joe get it out mate get it out so I

go outside and literally like project up

Purge and in that moment I just purging

purging and it was it was all from all

orifices the slum and toxic sludge from

all the years from like 15 years of

carnage

and I literally was lying on the floor

and then this overwhelming sense of

gratitude and and and then I realized

like I need to forgive myself for

everything and forgive others yeah yeah

and it was just like my heart cracked

open in that moment and I just started

to cry

and and then I just remember one of the

brothers he came in he said you are the

light my brother

[Laughter]

fascinating that you said you know keep

the middle that’s beautiful like it

probably made that so much more intense

when you actually did did it it’s

awesome yeah it’s like I was purging it

off against sunscreen top you know like

is it

yeah no that’s interesting that’s it’s

beautiful yeah that forgiveness part is

a big part huh yeah and you know

um and I’m fascinated also by you know

the that that last bit in a with the

rugby career we then drop into

uh

you know if I can ask what what gave you

that what what what was the realization

that brought you to act in that way with

that positivity because there’s

obviously two ways I could get pretty

pretty negative and so [ __ ] this stuff

or you know you chose the other route so

what what what because that’s quite

interesting I’m just thinking you know

for other people out there that go

through through this you know people get

to the same journey and they say oh

that’s cool you guys that’s cool that

happened here but how did what are the

things that I can do that I can maybe

going through the same thing but you

know what are the so what what what what

what helped you there yeah so that

that’s a that’s a beautiful question

right it’s like for me it’s it’s exactly

as you say and I think that it came with

experience because I’d seen I’d been in

teams for very many years like probably

20 years up until that point and I saw

in within teams when players aren’t

selected they’ll go into pockets of of

the players that aren’t selected and

they’ll talk with other players and

they’ll say you know this coach is a

dick he’s a dick he’s not gay

you know and it’s all just this ego play

that plays out and and so when in that

moment obviously I went home and I was

realized like wow I’m like really out of

the mix yeah and I had a little cry and

I was pissed like it was my ego that was

hurting you know but then uh as time

went on I started to say you know know

what how can I pitch up into this space

and how can I add value how can I

continue to give what I gave before and

I think that that’s just a shift in your

mindset because you can sit there and

you can be the victim of that situation

you can create pockets of negativity you

can also slag off the coach and say he’s

not good enough whatever the reasons may

be but I feel like the the way to kind

of come through that and to transcend

that and then it also made a lot of

sense to me because I started to

research like the Dalai Lama

um the summer some of some of these more

serious things like people get like

monks getting killed by Chinese you know

or you know and then I’m then I’m

putting them into suspect and I’m like

Oh my little ego is getting strange yeah

but like these Oaks are getting killed

you know restrictive it’s like yeah so

that put it that put the whole that put

things into into perspective for me

around like and and as I said like the

proof was uh so then I didn’t finish the

series so you then what happened how’s

this now

I get right to the end I’m with Banner

report he says to me Joe I give you any

favor you want you know and so I said

okay amazing thank you so much whatever

couple of months later I’m applying for

the French passport oh good and and and

I’m and I’m getting I’m waiting for my

papers from South Africa and and then

what happens is my paper’s coming from

South Africa are you a year late okay so

I get these papers and I have to apply

in this timing and it’s a year late as I

say okay well to me let me find jail

free phone jail card you know like very

fun Banner Laporte so I sent him a

message to say why not like can you help

me with this the next day I was a

possible time

I’m like yes I need

I knew this they’re positive yeah

the universe came back and said that way

hold on yeah I said I wanted to ask you

because I know you’ve been like whatever

for what I’ve I mean reading the book

and going into detail of that the story

there’s transformation that you had and

then just having this courage and this

Faith to step into this whole other

world right and just follow would you

say that you were really following your

intuition in that point in your life oh

for sure yeah I had absolutely [ __ ]

nothing else to follow Joe yeah because

you know

I mean in those days what 2012 2013

especially in a business space it was no

one to talk to yeah about this like this

yeah and in Cape Town and South Africa

and in business space you know

and I mean also I was the business

leader so there’s no one in the business

you could talk to you know people who

lose confident you can’t talk to them

you know I mean you can talk to maybe

other friends and stuff but

there’s no one in the business place to

talk to there wasn’t none of my friends

were going through it

um and I didn’t really wasn’t aware of

any I started reading some some some

books you know some spiritual books and

uh

spiritual books you know and um while

you were still while you were still yeah

is that that last year that last six

months here I I I I read Robin Sharma

um you know

um yeah I know it the monk who sold his

Ferrari yeah yes and then I also helped

started reading parallel Canelo a lot

and stuff like that so I had some help

but it was very much in the reading

stuff you know I had no one to talk to

so the only thing I could do was to

follow my intuition man it’s the only

thing I mean that’s and that’s why it

took me four years to follow that

intuition because it was like no man

that doesn’t make sense but eventually I

surrendered and I surrendered to

following my intuition and I think

that’s the maybe the beautiful message

out there to people you know on both our

stories is to actually you have to trust

your intuition because the truth is all

in insiders you know

yes some gurus and some books and stuff

can help bring it out but it’s all

inside us it all takes us into the truth

within us

you know and so therefore if you have

the strong intuition you know coming up

to really listen to it and to follow it

you know to question it and explore it

and ask the questions

um but yeah that’s a critical step so

for me yeah a long answer to a short

question but it was really to follow the

intuition and then from there just to

trust that you know do this leap of

faith and then to trust that it’ll be

okay and that

um I and to trust that I don’t know what

what’s going ahead I’m still I’m once

again in that spot you know no nodded so

far away I’m going and I’ve known but

then yeah really just to follow what I

call the breadcrumbs you know and jumped

off the turf and overseas

um

to South America and you’re going to

really laugh I was actually on my way to

New York because in my mind you know my

limited mind was thinking I’m just bored

of this business I must find another

business I thought I go to New York and

check out businesses go study maybe

something there and you know our mind is

so small you know and our being is so

much wider than the mind you know and

then you know we’ve got a lot of people

think you know your mind is everything

it’s just a small fraction

um so my mind came up with that plan the

only thing is the temperature in New

York was like minus four degrees in

January you know for African to go I

don’t know I’m gonna go to South America

first it’s summer there it’s been like

from January I mean January 2014 when I

left I’ll spend there from Jan until

about May and then may will be in New

York needless to say I haven’t been to

New York didn’t happen yeah I’ve never

still happened well maybe one day but

yeah it just started our journey started

after a few months in South America I

got serious secret parasites

I dropped from a lean foot strong 82 kg

man I was I was strongest in my life and

I did a lot of martial arts and boxing

and you know obviously a lot of sex over

the weekends so I was I was a proper

good shape of my footage yeah and but I

dropped from 82 kg to 72 kg with

parasites getting seriously sick and

that took me on a route to you know the

shamanic route in a meeting of someone

that took me into plant medicine took me

into a spiritual sexual assames and took

me to India and meditation mindfulness

also the uh stayed in the village with a

Dalai Lama that for two months now all

of that accelerated that thing yes yes

it was this journey that was just just

took on its own you know my mind had

this little perception of I’m gonna take

businesses out go to South America then

all of this happened and then I went wow

now there’s a much bigger picture here

and I just started following those you

know bread crumbs you know I suppose the

universe brought me those the illness

and stuff so I could really be

I had to find other routes sure and

Germanic and energy work and plant

medicine and deep inner work and then

once I’ve been healed from that I was

already on that journey of expansion and

then I just continued for another number

of years another four or five years 35

countries on that Journey

that was that was that was actually

going and teaching in those countries

eventually or how did that how did that

happen that transition

it was mostly learning learning it’s a

full-time student for four or five years

you know

um I assisted at some workshops and so

on but mainly I was actually just

learning yeah just learning and towards

the latter part of that I’d started

doing some stuff in India I did some

emotional expression release in a

smaller Village there and I kind of got

a class together and I you know I taught

it there and get some paid by donation

and

it was super cool and then you know when

I came back to South Africa I wrote the

book book out there then I started

sharing yeah experiences and I don’t

even say teaching because I I I

basically just share my experiences you

know she could call it the teaching but

it’s mainly sharing my experiences and

then as I did I actually learned much

more coming back and there’s always this

two-way process so it’s expanded from

there into that into into went into a

wider role I suppose you know what the

thing that stands out for me the most in

in the way when you talk it’s there’s a

it’s such a beauty within your story and

there’s such a there’s a humility within

me and that for me I recognize and that

for me is the essential one of the

essential parts of the journey is that

bringing that humility and I can I can

sense that within you right and I think

that that’s because of being at such a

high in in your life you know being

being on the top of what everyone

considers to be the top and then and

then completely transforming your life

and and and and stepping into the

unknown because there’s there’s let’s

face it like not many people are willing

to just give everything happens and go

for a try and to follow the intuition I

think that that’s the thing because I’ve

seen in my own life when I haven’t

follow that intuition because I’ve given

it to my mind and my mind works out and

analyzes and rationalizes and things

then you know I’m not actually living

towards like in alignment with that

authenticity of that so it’s like so

that’s just been an interesting

interesting thing and then also just

empowering you talk and I feel like also

when when you’re in a let’s just say

we’re in a room together and someone

with a very strong opinion and

um identity around who they think they

are comes into the space

for me I’m not gravitating necessarily

to that person I’m gravitating more to

the one that comes in that’s that’s

still that’s that’s got this this other

frequency that they’re carrying right

and I’m more drawn to that and there’s a

reason why

it’s it’s it’s we’re there we’re there

where they’re at on their path of course

but it’s just there’s something around

that that leaves a bad smell right yeah

no definitely no I I uh yeah it’s almost

that and and because you’re vibrating at

that higher kind of frequency and so you

actually recognize it in that person and

it’s almost as if that you know that

person is the you know is is the

medicine himself yes yes yes

I got one of uh good friends or across

the world that I also learned some stuff

from here is also a teacher in some of

this trainings was very much you know I

said when you walk into the room you

know just be the medicine you know I

walk into the room and you’re the

medicine you don’t have to say magical

if you love it you breathe it now if you

change if you want to see the change in

the world change out in the world you

know do it in yourself first and then

just be it and that is actually the

transmission that happens in the

medicine that happens then you know

someone wants to ask you stuff then yes

you can explain them and whatever but in

a way you don’t even have to

uh so I like that that example that you

gave you know sometimes the quiet guy in

the room there is actually the medicine

you know the guy that you want to always

feel drawn to and go talk to you and

there’s maybe a lot of lot of meters in

there in in that space that’s that’s the

that’s the beautiful thing because even

in the valley where we live a lot of my

friends that are there they they carry

that they carry that uh the being you

know and again it’s it’s very present

when you come into conversation and

discussion and so it’s it’s almost as if

you know in alignment in terms of the

alignment from like their thoughts their

words and their deeds all the actions

thoughts and deeds are all aligned yeah

and uh and it’s almost like alignment in

truth and it’s it’s it’s a beautiful

thing to be in the company of that

because as you say it’s like the

medicine you’re getting you’re sharing

you’re being it’s been you’re bathing in

each other’s love right because there’s

no like I think what also the ego is

creating this competition and it’s

creating separation and it’s without

potentially consciously even knowing it

but it plays out in that way you know so

it’s just a beautiful thing that that

having your having you crystallized in

this way and having having dissolved you

know

um because obviously to a degree you

know I was contemplate that about the

Saints and sages like

you know as you mentioned if that is

already within us that’s right you know

how much of the ego do we need how much

of that ego within the one would say

potentially in the world we need to you

know fight for our food or whatever we

need you know in our lives from that

perspective but then

when I look at sometimes like my master

SRI Muji he when I’m listening to him

talk it seems that that that is not even

within his reality you know that it’s

all just flowing and that whatever he’s

receiving in this process is just coming

from directly from that

you know so it seemed just

very uh yeah as you mentioned about the

trust the trust and intuition and

everything stemming from that place yeah

and I think we believe we’ll be moving

into a into a Consciousness and of in a

world of way

and I’m not really not close to that yet

and and that’s also okay but we’re

definitely moving more towards

collaboration instead of competition I

really I really believe that you know in

some way competitions is also good you

know you know like

like run from day to there be fit up and

you know I totally that that’s good but

but there’s also been such massive and

healthy competition on this planet which

has almost destroyed the planet and also

a lot of people uh in the process and

collaboration is such a you know

collaboration it can only come if you if

the ego is a little bit less in the ego

yeah so yeah I think it’s a chess right

there it’s so good to be here with you

today yeah so so grateful for the

opportunity to sit with you and there’s

some things also related to you know uh

sexuality that uh you know obviously you

work you you’ve been training in that

for many years and you know related to

sexuality and specifically like men’s

men’s health and men’s sexuality and and

and certain processes that I find within

my own life that that have helped me on

related to my sexuality and I feel like

you know things like semen retention

being aware of that being with the loss

of that of of the vital force

um just just that just to yeah for for

what I wanted to actually just you to

share whatever it is that you feel

related to that that could be

potentially amazing for the men out

there to have yeah no beautiful

excellent Joe that’s uh yeah you know

men’s sexuality is is something that you

know not not much spoken about you know

woman sexuality the last 50 years you

know there was so much stuff you know

about written about it and you know all

the different female orgasms you know

and and spots from G-spot to a spot or

whatever you’re not so much about it but

men’s sexuality very little and Men

traditionally don’t you know speak to

each other about sex and apart from a

short one-liner about you know boosting

like you know about something that

happened but it is not a detailed

vulnerable discussion so I I I believe

there’s we’re moving now into a world

where there’s also a lot of of men doing

this inner work so it’s like

men really drop deep inside themselves

and a lot of areas but also on the

sexuality space and you know often

people do a lot of work and

the all the different areas of their

life and then the last thing that they

go to is the sexuality part and that’s

okay but but one has to go there you

have to drop into the sexuality and see

what conditioning is there and shame and

fear and guilt and all of that

um so that’s a big part you know it’s a

big part a big passion for me is to

generally speaking lift that and help

lift that with men and women you know to

be us to get the girl Champ here kind of

lifted in in their sexuality space and

then definitely for men you know because

there’s so much so little talked about

it

um and you talk about semen retention

and you know you know just the fact that

a man can have orgasms without

ejaculation and a man can be

multi-orgasmic similar to women you know

you know most most people most guys only

women go like what what are you talking

about you when you say that and but it

we know that in ancient China ancient

India the taoists and the tantrics have

been doing it for you know two and a

half three thousand years ago the

practices there it’s just gone a little

bit you know in the Western World

forgotten about luckily that’s coming

out more now

so yeah so I talk about that I do

courses about that I did 21 day Journeys

for guys you know for 21 day Journey

online Journeys where you don’t watch

porn you don’t ejaculate there’s morning

morning routines rituals that we do

um a deep inner journey and you know

that that you know kind of make them

better or great lovers also because now

it can last longer a bit you know and

your woman has got so much more pleasure

and orgasms but it is much more than

that to actually find the guys to drop

deep inside yeah and they start you know

loving themselves you know it’s like you

said earlier what are the parts of us

that we don’t love and that we you know

that we that we heart and hearts on

ourselves yeah we don’t forgive yeah and

so once you start doing that Journey you

become so aware of your body and you

know your ejaculation but it means you

become so much more aware of your own

being yes and then you really can drop

in in deep within and you also become

more aware of everything around you you

know awareness breeds awareness I mean

so so definitely a

talk about you know with your Journeys

the blonde medicine Journeys so so yeah

so that’s that’s a big passion so I

think there’s uh there’s so much for men

to drop into into not just the Deep

inner Journey generally speaking but

also to into the sexuality part it’s so

it’s so fascinating for me because

um yeah just I was I was involved with a

a a deep dive into that over the last

like two three months and uh it’s it’s

interesting to me the flux and flow of

like the sensitivity within the body and

that like a lot of the pressure goes

towards the genitals and it’s like

because at one point in time I felt a

lot that that my energy was being

dispersed in my body and I wasn’t having

all the energy going to that point right

to the penis and so I I experienced that

these potentially like orgasms within

the body but not not like you know

having a full-blown orgasm within the

body yeah um you know without

ejaculation and so those are the two

things that I’m like really wanting to

explore in my own life to to to lengthen

those periods of time to to because as

far as I understand ejaculation and

um orgasm are two separate things right

but but because of like our conditioning

and how we’ve been processed processing

things as men and what we’ve been taught

because we haven’t obviously been taught

the real truth around these things sure

that that that that those are one thing

and that every time you know it’s like

an ends term means we come with our

partners and you know are we going to

get this and and that’s it and then we

go from North to 100 within two seconds

and so it’s fascinating for me because

obviously there’s specific techniques

right that you talk about moving energy

different uh different ways of exploring

and and allowing for those sessions to

become more harmonious and and as

opposed to being just having like like

this but like more harmonious and like

love making and like extending those

periods of time where we don’t just jump

from North to 100 in two seconds yeah

exactly you know and the reason that

it’s like that is also also important

for us not to be so hard to say to the

guys

because it’s quite logical the reason

why it’s like that you know because when

there’s a teenage boy you know when you

when you masturbate to your

self-pleasure you know it’s like often

rushed you know you have in the shower

because you’re doing something wrong

right yeah exactly so your body gets

trained yeah I can imagine this now your

body actually gets trained to come fast

yeah and then you get introduced to porn

yeah in your teens

our life what’s in a daily basis porn

and porn also

It’s All About The Money Shot you know

yeah exact location

yeah exactly it’s all about ejaculation

I mean that’s there’s even these clocks

the other day I checked it out you know

like this little clock there with a

friend of mine told me uh um exporter

and I checked it out

to see how quickly you cut you’re going

to ejaculate all right so so now it’s

like it’s like it’s like you’re trained

as an athlete so now yes you’re trying

to be a sprinter you know your whole

life is turned into a sprinter and then

you you’re into bed with a woman and now

you want to run a marathon yeah I know

it ain’t gonna work yeah ain’t gonna

work man yeah your body is trying to

come within two minutes or 30 seconds or

five minutes or whatever you know so now

with uh with the woman and then and you

you you come too fast and and the reason

and the reason why it’s good not to come

so fast is because women’s bodies are so

different you know it takes them longer

time to to warm up yeah exactly so

exactly it’s just a it’s just a

practical thing you know it’s not being

hard on the on the guys to say you know

last longer it’s really if you want to

have a proper love making session with

your partner yeah you need to hold it

longer or last longer because she can

get warmed up

a woman mainly often like only about

15-20 minutes really warm up and get

into the orgasmic State yes so

and if you look on on some of the stats

you know all over the world I mean I

think it’s on average four or five

minutes that that on average the average

not uh you know the the average that

guys make love before ejaculating yes in

five minutes is far too short for a for

a girl you know for a woman to get to

that point exactly so yeah so they so

that’s so that’s the the the one of

those you know those are the reasons why

that happened but then it’s so easy to

change that you can change it you know

one practical tip is just when you solve

pleasure I love the word self-pleasure

in the other masturbation yeah is that

that you then don’t come in like five to

three minutes but you actually lost at

least 20 minutes yes yes and sometimes

you don’t even come but you at least do

20 minutes and you also you know that’s

your arms man grab your body yeah

pleasure pleasure all over your body I

mean yeah yeah now the workshop you’re

up in the Free State it’s a big farming

guy you know tough Oak you know being in

the workshop and we were talking about

the self-pleasing you know how to do it

and it you know and it was like there

was a couple workshops you know with

couples

I started crying he said man I’ve never

touched my arm like that

yeah as I said I’ve got a beautiful arm

I would have touched my arm I felt so

man it was so it was it’s so beautiful

to see you know because that guy would

have told would tell us these things you

know yeah yeah so the moment you start

doing that and you

don’t just go for the genitals but

you’re actually exploring your body and

love your body yeah it’s as you

mentioned so beautifully before the

energy does doesn’t just stay in your

groin area it now moves through your

whole body sure now you can start

experiencing all these this pleasure on

the rest of your body Plus in New York

can last longer because the energy is

not just at your at your groin area it’s

in your body because the moment it’s in

your groin area and it just stays there

it builds bolts Adventure yeah yeah

exactly so you’re not like dispersing

the energy in other places yeah that’s

exactly and you can disperse it breathe

it up you know yeah things you can just

you can breathe it up you know and just

you know it sounds good don’t worry too

much you know for the guys to do this

and I don’t worry too much but just

breathe it up and just put your

intention there that energy will go well

energy will go up yeah it will go with

intentions and if you don’t feed it

moving doesn’t matter but actually yeah

just to just to have that to to to to

even if it was imaginary at first in

that way right yeah yeah I know it’s

it’s fascinating for me because the

exploration into that obviously having

having you know uh yeah just sexual

sexual interaction love making but

that’s bringing a deeper connection with

your partner you know it’s not about an

instrument or that I’m just gonna get my

rocks off of things that like that how

we’ve been conditioned to feel as men

but more about how can I have this

experience with my lady and and like

really connect with her deeper and

beautiful you know look look into her

eyes but but I feel like also it’s it’s

those practices as you mentioned or it’s

like retraining your body right in your

nervous system to get like yeah to

really like be in in that kind of

direction of of maintaining and doing it

in a short right yeah I know 100 I mean

as you say the journey rather than the

destination yeah you know because the

ejaculation is you know it’s so taught

that’s the destination once you get that

out of your mind and of your body and

you can actually it’s about the journey

that you sir yeah you know and as you

say you know look in the eyes you know

having this journey with her you know

there’s magic that happens when you look

in someone’s eyes when you make love and

you know you just drop into that and

feel your body feel hers playing around

roll around yeah and then that becomes

this deep deep Soul connection you know

um

and uh I’m not slowly ejaculate at the

point if you want to and and but the

beauty is you can also make love and

only ejaculate every stencil don’t you

stand with you or the second time that

you that you make love yeah you know so

there’s so much there for us to play

around with and as you as you say then

by doing that it gives you more intimate

time with her yeah imagine now for an

hour you’re making love you know and

it’s not just penetration not just

friction but you know what beautiful art

connection comes out of that that’s

amazing

that’s the GC stuff like I love that

survives so so I’ve been doing these

practices to kind of to share the energy

to spread the energy energy and then and

then what I found lately uh that’s what

I wanted to mention is that once you

have that hit right once you have the

ejaculation orgasm and ejaculation at

one time it’s almost like a janky it’s

like a heroin thank you because you’re

releasing all this dopamine and

oxycontin and all this in your body yeah

and that in itself can be like addictive

right like you could like keep wanting

to

copulate or have the same experience and

so I found that because for for some

time now I’ve been like really really

working on you spreading the energy

using the breath breathing deeply like

breathing into my belly like doing all

those processes and then what I find is

very quickly I went back into my old

pattern yeah and so that’s that’s

interesting for me how how that can also

come back I suppose like

sure you know if you if and a network I

was going to ask you is it like because

and then there’s some questions here but

is it for everyone is it for every man

to experience or to to explore uh you

know non-ejaculative orgasms

um is it for every man and then yeah and

then related to the first question can

we can we how do what’s the quickest way

to us to flip back if we do go back to

ejaculation and orgasm as like becoming

the predominant thing where we want to

actually have more of the space and more

you know

uh room when we’re in that space to just

be to just be here first of all and then

also just to be calm no sure so so

firstly I I believe it’s an addiction I

really believe that that uh that

ejaculation is an addiction yeah because

you your body just gets used to that

heaters you say exactly yeah

whether it’s for everyone

uh

for me

it’s important that I think everyone

knows about it yeah I’m like on a

mission for everyone not just if every

man with every woman to know about this

and I want to be here by by 2028 like

half the planet to know about it and

then they can decide whether they want

to do it or not yeah so I think it’s

it’s I think that’s the big part is that

that if you don’t know you don’t know

what you don’t know so for people to to

realize that this is an option this is

for me the big part and then to

experiment with it yes so

um and then one can then have it where

you do make love in this way yes you

know four months and then other way

where you can maybe don’t yeah you don’t

yeah so you switch Yeah you can switch

Yeah Yeah I do it I do it sometimes Joe

I mean yeah so my ejaculation frequency

now is like once every uh like two three

weeks once every two three weeks yeah

and I make love almost almost on a daily

basis yeah um but I only ejaculated with

two weeks or so yeah that sounds healthy

though right you know where I’m now you

know it depends in your 20s 30s 40s 50s

it increases as you go that’s right yeah

and it’s your own personal experience in

your about a year ago uh sort of 10

years ago it was probably about once a

week yeah so my 40s were about once once

a week now once in two weeks three weeks

and I think you know in your 20s you

know every three four days you know it’s

also find it so it’s finding that right

frequency yeah so it’s not it’s not to

because sometimes the guys get confused

that people get confused about it means

that don’t ever ejaculate it’s not about

that it’s just it’s about conscious

ejaculation conscious ejaculation it’s

like becoming aware of your body and

knowing how often what is good what’s

the Frequency that’s good yeah and then

when you ejaculate to be conscious about

it now imagine you now with your with

your women in bed there and you said

yeah baby of you know once you make an

effort before making love you know I

want to gift you my my seat tonight yeah

yeah yeah yeah yeah exactly that’s very

different yeah that’s different yeah

yeah it’s different energy

wow yeah yeah yeah exactly and then you

ejaculate and you can either and it’s a

conscious ejaculation yeah and you’ve

done it only now

two weeks ago let’s say you know and you

made love a lot of times in between you

know then this

this um the sacredness of it is really

experience in such a a bigger way

yeah no no I feel you on that like I

think that that also consciously coming

to that point of ejaculation with your

partner when she’s organizing the

orgasming and then it’s like it’s a

union it’s even bringing your connection

like so much data and so much you can

sense it right that’s exactly so yeah I

think and also as you mentioned I love

what you said about consciously doing

those things in your life and I feel

like all aspects of Our Lives as we

become more conscious we start to

wanting to be bring Consciousness to all

aspects of Our Lives not just wait maybe

one thing in our relationships but to

all aspects of our lives and so this for

me is very important in terms of men’s

Sexual Health but also just exploration

of of of sexuality for a man yes and

especially like with all of our

conditioning and the things we’ve been

told and taught not necessarily uh those

things aren’t necessarily aligned with

truth and that’s why I feel like this

role as you say as as men that have have

had these transformations in their lives

to be able to to share what you’ve been

doing for many years but just to share

that and to share the wisdom the real

wisdom around it and to get that truth

out there sure because I think a lot of

a lot of what the media says is very

different from from from those truths

you know as you mentioned about the tar

the Taos they’ve been practicing what

for 3 000 years or more and so to bring

light to that knowledge and that wisdom

and so I also just wanted to tell you a

story but it was very interesting

so I I had my Awakening and I’d cleaned

up my act and related to what I was

putting in my body and just what I was

feeding my my mind with what I was

um what I was when I was processing this

Awakening and going through it I was

really cleaning up my act on all the

various levels

and so I had been included into this

group and the group’s name was kakprat

s

and so there’s what is what the group

was was a group of men that were sharing

uh different things right some of the

jokes derogatory things about women

uh sexuality porn different things

but I didn’t realize that and I’ve been

cleaning up my act completely so I I I’m

like on the phone and I the next thing

that comes through it’s some Arc you

know and he’s just like and I’m like

what dude like this is just like and

it’s coming straight to our fight I’m

just like this is too much man I can’t

do this like I’m like all holy right now

right I’m just like pure I’m like I’m

done with this stuff so I decided in

that moment I was like you know what I’m

gonna I’m gonna write an email to all of

my mates I’m gonna send it to them I’m

Gonna State exactly where I am because I

haven’t seen them up after rugby I went

into like Solitude Vibe for like two

years and so I hadn’t seen any of them

they didn’t know the transformation I’d

been on right so I wrote them this long

email like stating I don’t stand for

this anymore I’m I’m done with this like

all these things and I send it off to

them and then

a one mate was just like he found

because I like literally said I was like

guys I love you all so much but I

honestly just don’t want to be part of

cockpots

and I was just like that and it’s like

it’s amazing what like energy you’re

created like ripples you know but it’s

interesting you mentioned and I wanted

to also mention that is that porn right

we’ve all been through porn as men and

we I see the harm within the pawn I can

see it so much sure and so like what is

your view upon that [ __ ] man no I did a

very interesting experiment uh uh when I

was traveling the world

um actually told my my bottom again

partner about it the other day and um

so so I’m super lucky that I’ve never

been

like addicted to Ports I’ve never had a

big history with with porn watch porn

but I’ve never got to you know I mean I

work with with guys and and and you know

almost I would say almost like most men

are addicted to it or have been at a

point you know like really the guys

sharing the circles about it you know so

yeah so I haven’t I’ve been pretty lucky

that it really didn’t catch me so much I

think I was always always more keen

about the live experience yeah yeah I

was always like [ __ ] if I could get this

this real woman to sit here under my lap

one even if it means I have to go to

Mavericks gentlemen slept when I could

get a strippers to them I want to have a

strippers with me or I’d rather have a

beautiful girlfriend sitting on me than

the screen so I was pretty lucky that

way

um but I know it’s a big problem proof

for a lot of guys and I actually did

some experiments with it when I was

overseas

um

and um

this crazy thing I was in South America

and I was doing a lot of workshops and

stuff in a deep inner Journey

and I also been talking about porn you

know I mean and I also had a bit of a

celibate period there of like about a

year almost two year period that I

whilst I was overseas the first part of

it

um and um yeah and also then also what’s

you know once I write a bit of porn I

went okay and then I actually noticed

the next day my interaction with people

were different so then I started

actually did some research

I actually one night watch it like like

three four hours of porn you know I

would like in a little village there in

San Marcos yeah

I know it’s San Marcos yeah Guatemala

Guatemala yeah I know I was living there

and I was doing all these amazing

workshops and deep spiritual Journeys

and stuff so I was like super in tune

with myself and I would like to interact

with people in the village and it would

be really come from from Love And like I

would be a woman to action and then one

night I was decided I’m gonna do this

this this this this this experiment I

don’t know why the [ __ ] it I just saw it

I watched porn for like probably four

hours or five hours and I think I

probably also I’m sure ejaculate to

ejaculate it or so yeah [ __ ] bro the

next day I walked in that Village

and I promise you it was my interaction

with the people was just different I

wasn’t trying to it was off yeah I

wasn’t trying to do anything different I

was just walking but I noticed the

people around me they interviewed with

me was a little bit you know it’s funny

and I was my energies with them was

different

um so this is this is a beautiful story

from you know of a beautiful realization

for me that experiment because normally

I’ll give you example so normally

sometimes even like wow and I promise

you

I haven’t encountered one woman in my

life that wouldn’t go like wow thank you

man it’s very very few women that will

be triggered if you do that yeah yeah oh

that’s beautiful

so what I noticed the next day after

watching the porn I didn’t actually do

that I would see the beautiful woman and

they don’t have to walk away and then

until she turned around then I would

check oh man notice that difference yeah

I wasn’t trying I just naturally

happened yeah it’s almost like it’s

almost like a little bit I wouldn’t call

it a dark energy because yeah

there’s a bit of a city energy

you know I wasn’t like confident enough

to just look at her and smile and look

at her I’d waited for her to turn around

or when to walk away then to look and

whatever and and there’s nothing wrong

looking at beautiful woman but how do

you do it yeah and what I then noticed

is that I was doing that and then as I

then walked away I actually felt my

energy depleted so I wasn’t just like

um

maybe even drawing some energy from her

whatever but it was a strange way I was

doing it was also harming myself yes you

know and potentially maybe arming out

I’m not sure but

um fascinating so that’s you know it’s a

long long uh answer to that to that

short question but it’s an illustration

for me in a practical way how porn can

affect your life yes it changes your

energy field man yeah it um

um and I’m going to point now with I

don’t think anything is either good or

bad so I think there is a place for porn

I don’t think it’s like you know

completely not avoid yeah exactly yeah

but I think there’s massive dangers to

it and to be aware of it and especially

if you do it on a daily basis and

especially if you ejaculate to it and

especially if this is your go-to how the

hell are you going to meet this this

other beautiful sexy woman if you in the

screen dial time plus your energy goes

there you know yeah yeah yeah so if you

stop watching the pawn then you actually

start meeting women yes the other guy

and Prague you know uh this is my course

you know and on 21 day course and that

you know I also watch importance and

ejaculate and he said [ __ ] these chicks

just started coming up to him and

talking to him yeah yeah yeah

you got that right yeah

it’s energy change yeah exactly yeah no

no I think and it’s it’s amazing how

like in within the energy field how that

can be sensed by a woman right it’s

incredible like how how that shifts in

your life when you do stop watching porn

sure because I can remember as well in

initially like it used to be the thing

you know guys used to just get the tapes

and like we used to look in the Scopes

and those things used to be like oh man

rub it like get that get the get the

queen bro get the

the little stars I mean nipples into

Africa

could right and it’s like it’s it’s just

yours as you say

it’s super interesting right like it’s

and it’s it’s nice because I feel like

now much more in this exploration around

sexuality and as you said it’s like okay

if you ejaculate

that’s okay too yeah it’s not like

that’s what I love about what she’s just

said because before because it’s like we

are so conditioned then like if I if I

start to say now oh you know I’m working

on my sexuality and I want to make love

for longer and this and then I started

to realize but if you’ve got a hot woman

and you’re with her and you ejaculate

like why then after that like blame

yourself or be hard on yourself even if

you are in a process of becoming more

conscious in your in your life and

especially your sexual life and I feel

like that is a big shift as well for men

because we’re either beating ourselves

up that we’re not lasting long enough

now we’re now we’re beating ourselves up

that we you know we went a little bit

further so it’s like it’s really

something about also self-love I suppose

yeah exactly that’s something I wanted

to to to to mention earlier also you

know so I mean I so on average only

every two three weeks ejaculate but like

last week I ejaculated four thousand

a week

signed up

how many times I can ejaculate what’s my

refractory period to get a bit older now

it’s still good you know yeah yeah that

thing when you ejaculate and then before

your heart again that they call it a

refractory period yeah yes so so exactly

and I was just having fun and playing

with that

um yeah so that’s super important huh

yeah super important if you practice

this thing is today if you do ejaculate

to

you’re still going to destroy the

experience yeah yeah because you know

it’s so easy to happen you know that now

he was women and now ejaculate as your

jacket oh [ __ ]

I don’t think it’s super sexy for her

you know yeah I think ejaculating

you know obviously that’s not gonna be

nice for her you know and plus not nice

for you because you’re not exp you know

enjoying it so I’m not at a point but I

also have done it I’ve done it once done

oh God that wasn’t so now I mean if I

crash over the edge and I feel I’m not

crashing then I just go with it man I

just enjoy it yeah but my question my my

one question would be then is also is is

it like is it gonna take a lot of

practice to get to that point

or is it like is it like anything you

know it’s like to retrain your body in

that way you know what are we looking at

like in terms of a timeline is it

different for everyone How would how

would one how would one look at that and

then say you know is it is it something

that one has to practice every single

day of your life or

I I think it’s I think it’s just by

starting the awareness of uh as you have

to start somewhere yeah so I think the

first thing is just to start and and to

realize that you don’t have to ejaculate

every time and to realize that orgasm

and ejaculation are two different

different things yeah and it’s not

Felicity you know spiritual yeah this is

like scientifically medically you know

proven it’s two different things and I

probably don’t have enough time to go

into that detail of that now yes but um

once you actually start just getting a

bit of knowledge about that you know are

there what’s a lot of YouTube videos do

some some do some courses with some guys

you know not just me the other guys also

around the world doing this

um then you start knowing that and then

start playing and experimenting with it

and then actually to have fun with it as

you said earlier you know guys can be so

[ __ ] hard on on ourselves you know

yeah yeah it can be so tough so then to

just have fun and play with it and start

experimenting with it you know what a

better place to experiment others how

pleasing or then with your with you with

two women you know yeah um your partner

your man whatever you know it’s not just

for you know with you straight to or or

go whatever you know one or two gay guys

on my course also you know that’s it’s

it’s it’s it’s it’s it’s a great thing

for everyone to to do yes um but then to

start practicing and playing with that

and what a beautiful way to to

experiment you know so you know you make

love you know with this you know

attitude with your partner and play

around with it and breathe the energy up

do these things and every now and then

you crash over the edge but it’s fine to

crash over the edge because then you

find where the edge is so it’s a journey

yes it’s a journey you know and it’s

like it’s it’s it’s it’s it’s weeks it’s

months it’s years it’s ongoing Journey

I’m still on the journey you know yeah

man no I’m still in the journey you know

sometimes I find wow I’m all of a sudden

super close yeah yeah experiment what

should I do maybe breathe a bit more

experiment energy you know I can play

around with stuff yes so I would say Do

not to take it too seriously to see it

as just a you know playing

playing and having fun with it yeah so

and then it will boil then your body

will get the knowledge get experience

you start beginning at it better at it

you see your lovemaking you know you

know kind of getting to another levels

which is another motivation then you

know your your your woman see that you

know you have to discuss it with her

that’s so super important because we

don’t discuss this with her this she’s

going to really freak out because

because women are so I also so linked to

your ejaculation yeah of course of

course we have to discuss it with him

that there’s not their desirability

that’s it yeah yeah yeah yeah but when

you start experiencing that then it’s

also motivation for you you know it’s

like going to the gym and you know

you’re getting a bit fitter and stronger

you know wow and then you get more you

know so it’s the same thing when you

once you see those results then it’s

easier to to expand it more uh and I

love what you said about your partner

because I think that’s also conscious

consciously relating with them and and

and the communication that you have with

them because obviously in that process

they’re they’re as much there as you

right and and if they are aware of that

and then they can actually help you

potentially in that process as well it’s

amazing it’s so good to chat with you

um so stoked that we could meet in this

way and I just feel like there’s so much

more that we could even go into around

uh you know this life and you know the

beauty that of this path and this like

all the things that you’ve gone through

in your life and to where you are now

yeah no it’s the same same year man and

I’d love to also hear more about your

what you’re doing out there you know in

the jungle and plant medicine and stuff

you know so let’s yeah keep on these

conversations I think it’s uh it’s super

cool man I mean that could manage

love you bro YouTube