hi guys
i’m here today with uh Baba Dez Nichols
founder of the international school of
temple arts
also called ista
writer speaker
international traveler
universal spreader of love
troublemaker
troublemaker
and it’s really beautiful it’s wonderful
to have you here this nice talking to
you and
it’s a joy to be here with leonard lowe
author
of jump and uh organizer of men’s
circles and
bringing lots of beautiful
sharings to
people
it’s a joy to share this conversation
with you awesome man
and it’s wonderful having you in africa
it’s wonderful having you in south
africa
cape town scarborough
uh yes that’s great being here it is
great being here it’s beautiful yeah
oh and love to talk you know we we share
so so many similar things and the one
thing that
came up the other day when we chatted um
was you know this
uh conscious ejaculation
um
everything around that you know like the
similar tension
and um
yeah holding your ejaculation and
everything associated with that so uh
yeah just when we kick off with that
what are your thoughts about that
well in ordinary consciousness they call
that ejaculate
ejaculate control or you know
ejaculatory control i don’t like to use
the word control
i like choice yeah that we’re not
wanting to learn how to control
ourselves we’re wanting to learn how to
be aware of what’s going on with our
bodies so we could be a choice yeah we
could be a choice about
when we ejaculate if we ejaculate and uh
i feel that uh
as most of us in this culture and
cultures around the world we don’t learn
about ejaculatory choice
so we uh you know there’s just and it’s
just not it’s not something that that
we’re educated about it’s not something
that we are comfortable always talking
about
and yet it’s such an important thing and
for many reasons to to know our bodies
to uh
to have enough consciousness to hold our
bodies and notice that part of ourselves
that you know it’s our biological
imperative to reproduce to impregnate to
ejaculate
and yet as we know as we start learning
the different practices
that there’s so many benefits to
retaining
that energy and not ejaculating all the
time
and
oftentimes ejaculation for young men
turns out to be you know it’s a release
it relieves the pressure it relieves the
tension it relieves the desire or we use
it to go to sleep at night
uh you know all kinds of things because
it feels like our bodies and our bodily
urges
urges can overwhelm consciousness sure
and
we may say hey i don’t want to create a
child but when we’re in the passion of
making love that biological imperative
kicks in and it feels so good in our
bodies and all those chemicals are
pumping
and
and those moments it seems like the best
idea in the world to to ejaculate and
and and maybe procreate
and yet
to have enough awareness to know that’s
not what we’re choosing it’s not what
i’m choosing that may not be what my
lover’s choosing
so let’s not create a child
unconsciously
um and and really claim our power and
have mastery around what’s happening
with our bodies knowing what’s happening
with our bodies
yeah i liked what you were saying the
other day about
you know it’s so much more than uh than
it ejaculation choice and so much more
than
uh you know the ejaculation or siemens
thing and it’s it’s so much wider and it
actually goes to awareness of your body
and everything around you the almost
same body part right that the embodiment
part is that
when we use our consciousness to really
connect and and know our bodies and not
not be at war with our bodies but
actually fall in love with our animal
selves with with that part that is
embodied
and to connect with that part of
ourselves
and
know that part of ourselves and have a
good dialogue with ourselves so we’re
aware of where we’re at in our arousal
we’re aware of where we’re at when we’re
when we’re in our pleasure that we’re
breathing that energy that we learn how
to circulate that energy that it isn’t
all focused on our genitals
because if it’s all focused on our
general genitals it’s going to want to
come out
that’s what we’re designed to do
and yet if we can take that energy and
you know breathe it down into the earth
breathe at the different places in our
body circulate that energy
in ourselves circulate it with our
lovers circulate it with the planet
certainly you know you can use sexual
energy for so many things and when you
build that energy and you retain that
energy and you feel comfortable holding
that energy you know a lot of guys
complain about getting blue balls and
it’s uncomfortable and they feel pain if
they don’t ejaculate that’s because they
they’re not they don’t know how to move
that energy and circulate that energy so
that it re re alleviates
the pressure that’s there because it’s
it’s it’s it expands to many places not
just our genitals so
that’s an important thing
and the piece that
that we hit that that you kind of went
aha with
is that
as we do that dance with power and
awareness with our bodies
our consciousness becomes more embodied
we become more embodied we take back our
power and our choice so that we’re not
in fear of pregnancy
and a lot of men deal with that fear by
getting a vasectomy they’ll get cut
because they either have the belief that
they they can’t
they’re not at choice basically that
they don’t feel that when it comes to
their sexuality and that biological
imperative that they don’t have
awareness enough awareness and presence
to not ejaculate
inside of a woman and
if you don’t ejaculate inside or you
don’t ejaculate at all then you’re not
going to curate a pregnancy and to have
enough presence of our bodies so that we
can feel everything that’s happening
like
to know when the slightest drop is
coming up the lingam is you know so so
if you know hey i’m getting to that
place where
something could be happening then it’s
like okay it’s time to put on a condom
where it’s time to stop making love
because there’s a chance
a drop of semen could could go into the
yoni uh or into the womb and create a
pregnancy so it’s knowing what’s going
on with your body having enough
awareness to know what’s going on with
your body and that not only applies to
our sexuality but it applies it applies
to every part of our body
and every part of our lives that now
we’re embodied and it’s the same
awareness and consciousness of what’s
happening with our body that we can
understand what’s happening with our
emotional bodies we can understand
what’s happening in
relationships and it just expands
awareness everywhere so this practice of
ejaculatory choice
brings us so many more gifts than just
just the energy that we build by
retaining our ejaculation and also more
gifts than just preventing pregnancy
yeah soothing yeah i see it so often
dude and
the guy said on the course you know they
they come with uh specifically you know
for those um
learning learning this uh this choice
and this practice
and then find
such expansion in their normal lives
and such expansion and their in their in
their lives with their partners
you know and then all of a sudden the
the the relationship expands there’s so
much more awareness in the relationship
not just on a uh on a sexual
front but in the whole broader
relationship space packs everything yeah
and they go out in the world and
they connect with with other people and
other beings and the world outside you
know whether it’s personal and business
space and they’re just so much more
aware
of everything yeah it affects our
business lives it affects our lives with
our children our families our people
um
everything you know the earth uh our
food everything it’s all it all becomes
connected and i think i feel like that’s
that’s really a beautiful fascinating
thing and you know just the the fact
that we’re so in tune with our bodies
you know people have heard about tantric
lovemaking and that oh you know if if
you understand these practices and you
have in touch with your body
lovemaking can become an experience if
you choose that can be hours and hours
long
and and and then you start to move into
a place where you have the capacity
to breed that energy and be in your joy
and your enjoyment of holding that
energy because it’s not uncomfortable
and then you can show up for your
partner more because oftentimes
women we all want to make love longer
because it’s such a powerful beautiful
place
to build that energy and be
in that
in that shift in consciousness and you
know it’s it’s it’s fascinating because
that shift of consciousness is supported
by the chemicals we’re releasing in our
bodies when we’re making love
you know it’s like when we when we take
certain substances and plant medicines
and everything it can do the same thing
it shifts our consciousness it shifts
our awareness we expand we’re not living
in our small little containers anymore
love making does the same thing it’s it
it’s very powerful about that chemistry
yeah so it’s uh i think you and i share
that same passion you know to
because you know i know you often
say that i’ve heard you so so that many
times
you know you don’t know what you don’t
know you know that’s the scariest thing
in the world you know the unknown the
unknown yeah and i think there’s so many
people
uh no judgment here it’s just
there’s so many people that make love
but i’ve never touched into the depth of
lovemaking and they experience
lovemaking and not just a time thing you
know 5 or 10 or 15 minutes or so
or so but also
not a really deep connection not really
dropping into that deep deep kind of
other levels of lovemaking and not just
the procreation and recreation but also
moving that energy on your body for
health and for like spiritual you know
um
yeah growth
and it’s like almost you know when you
say i often find when i say
you guys and and you know to people make
love for hours i often look at this
unbelievable look of like you know this
guy’s talking a lot of nonsense now
what’s he on about you know
and that’s where that thing pops in you
know you don’t know what you don’t know
and
yeah so it’s almost
it’s just so great to to plant these
seeds and to get people to to start
experiencing that because i i mean i
don’t know what’s your take on it i
almost feel sometimes like 80 of
the humans on this planet have never
really tapped into the depths of
lovemaking i don’t know i don’t know
what you’re thinking well
well yeah you know and the the thing is
on on one level our partners and our
lovers and even ours we want more depth
we want more intimacy on the other side
of that
for a lot of us that depth and intimacy
is terrifying
because now we’re more vulnerable we’re
more transparent
we’re opening ourselves to be seen and
felt
and we’re actually bringing ourselves
present to see and feel another being so
when we’re in that place of making love
um that depth and intimacy comes in
and
to
move into the states of arousal and the
peaks of arousal and to be with your
lover and move into the valleys of the
rest during lovemaking
and then that energy can come up and
come down and it becomes a whole journey
to hang out with your lovers and talk
about what are your dreams and desires
what are what what’s tender for you what
are your fears
and and to have conversations about what
it is you’re doing together and what you
want to manifest in each other’s lives
even if it’s just i just want to enhance
your life and create more joy in your
life and your partner wants to do the
same thing for you um and then and then
of course when you drop into partnership
when you’re making love and you’re
sharing life with someone on a
day-to-day basis there’s so many facets
of life your work the children the home
what you’re going to do about i mean to
make love and talk about
how you’re going to
take care of the thing with the car
you know it’s not like an intrusion in
your love making but love making become
something that’s a container for
everything to happen and you know it’s
like if we can live our lives in love
all the time we’re not necessarily
making love but as we hold that energy
and we’re not ejaculating then we bring
that love forward so even though we’re
out of the bedroom
that love energy is still
vibrating in us and then we bring that
love energy
everywhere and like you said into our
work into our other relationships into
everything and and what happens
eventually is you’re just making love
all the time
you know and and and of course
physically but also just energetically
we’re making love all we’re living in
love
sure sure it becomes part of your life
you know it’s very useful this category
of like let’s do the 10 15 minutes like
two three times a week and it’s like
almost like boxed you know you know
that’s our
one
way of looking at it and the other way
you know you so beautifully articulated
it’s like
you know it’s part of your life and if
you do make left for a few hours that
it’s almost impossible for that
frequency that vibrancy not to carry out
carry on into the rest of the day
exactly and you know even on the
spiritual path you know we
we we will start on our spiritual paths
and we’ll have these ecstatic moments of
being connected with everything and
seeing everything clearly you know and
then we get on with our normal lives and
then we start to forget
and we become very
focused on the things that are happening
and we kind of lose focus of that
expanded state of of of consciousness
and what we’re learning how to do is to
change that that ratio of instead of
having moments of peak moments of
awareness and being connected to
everything we expand those peak moments
of awareness
and what happens at a certain point in
our development is we start to notice
more when we’re not in those peak
moments
and we feel the disconnect and pain of
not being connected to love so so at
first it’s like oh i have a little taste
of love i have a taste of consciousness
i got a taste of enlightenment or
whatever and so keep expanding those
moments because
what will happen is the whole thing will
get turned over and and then it’ll just
be those moments when you’re not there
rather than the moments of when you are
there so then eventually the whole thing
is to live in that enlightened or that
uh illuminated or that in love place all
the time
yeah
love that plan and our sexuality teaches
us how to do that
and the challenge of going deeper into
the awareness of our bodies and not to
forego that with
with drugs or surgery but to actually
know that i’m at choice this is a
powerful choice it’s so powerful i could
create another being
and that’s not what my soul is here for
that’s not what my heart is here for
that’s maybe not the the path that i
that i’m really here to walk it’s not my
path to raise children
if it is then great then it’s like yes
i’m going to i’m opening up i want to
call in a being a a child
i can feel a soul wanting to come in and
i can feel that’s what love wants and
that’s my role in life to to parent a
child it’s like oh thank you you know
that’s such an important thing because
there’s too many children out there that
have parents that don’t want to be
parents sure and it just happened to
them because they just were ignorant
they didn’t have ejaculatory choice
and their partners weren’t supporting
them ejaculatory choice yeah isn’t it
beautiful do you also find it beautiful
that you know if you
then learn how to hold the ejaculation
and then when you do ejaculate and often
talk to about the guys to get the right
ejaculation frequency now i know you
very much similar to me it’s about not
this thing about never to ejaculate ever
in your life but it’s very much about
sex positive pleasure positive you know
to do but find the right frequency
but then
i i just find it so beautiful when you
can then hold it but then when you do
ejaculate and you share that with your
partner now either before in the love
making that you are going to and you
look into her eyes and you then
gifts the seed to her into her body and
to to to the two of you or to a few it
really makes it very sacred it makes the
experience so sacred and and and she’s
aligned she’s wanting that experience
and you know a lot of guys that that
don’t know what’s going on they you know
it’s like they have that consent and
they have that agreement we’re going to
create a ritual and we’re going to share
this seed and we’re going to ejaculate
where would you like that ejaculate do
you want it in your yoni do you want it
on your body do what we you know and to
to have these conversations about what
to do with this very powerful
uh powerful sacred seed and to treat it
like that
and
and like it becomes a choice
when we ejaculate is there a prayer with
that ejaculation what do we want to
manifest
it’s a very powerful energy and how to
actually start using and directing that
energy for something other than just
procreation it’s like as we start having
these conversations and we talk about
one thing it it it ties into another
thing and it ties into so many things
about
who we are and how we do our
relationships and our our relationship
with power our relationship with love
our relationship with freedom
um and all the ways that we consciously
and unconsciously do things to bring
more conscious awareness to the parts of
ourselves that we’re not really in touch
with
um and you know where women will pull
seed from a man so that they can try to
hook him in and have a child and there’s
some manipulation there where men will
get women pregnant because there’s a
that there’s a part of them that’s
afraid they may lose the woman’s but if
they get her pregnant then
it’s more guaranteed that she’s going to
be in their lives so we can use our
sexuality to manipulate and control each
other we can use pregnancy and children
to try to do that as well that’s not
honoring the soul that’s not honoring
the child it’s it’s that it’s that
greedy personal agenda coming in
in so many ways or just because we want
more safety and security and
relationships somehow we think children
are going to create that for us maybe
maybe what i could ask in like you know
on a fun more personal point you know
that’s that’s that’s lovely um
how long have you been practicing you
know this you know from what age and
you know has this personally come into
you you know just some of this any final
personality
i started to have a clue about my
sexuality in my mid-20s okay which is
when i started studying you know tantra
and some of these mysteries
so
the the whole idea of ejaculatory choice
uh was like oh wow you know and i
started to realize
how i was raised the lack of education
um you know my own sexual addiction
around it or
you know addiction to ejaculation
um learning that there’s actually
something else you can do when you’re
aroused other than just ejaculate and a
lot
that’s the big news for a lot of guys
they don’t even know that they have a
choice sure and of course they do if
they bring in their conscious awareness
and so you know through my 20s and my
late 20s i was really learning
how to be comfortable holding my seed
how to breathe that energy how to send
that energy to different places
um i don’t feel like i really achieved a
level of mastery until probably in my
40s you know so it took me many years
you know i i started to become more
aware i got better and better at it but
it’s like anything when you practice it
and you get more comfortable with it
then it becomes second nature and your
confidence builds and you also for me i
also started to feel the benefits
in my body for my health
for my energy and how nourishing that
was to not ejaculate and to hold that
energy and how great it felt to the
place where i started to realize it at
some times it feels better to not
ejaculate than it does to ejaculate so
there was a re-education of my own
nervous system and my own
body and and everything to really uh see
the benefits of ejaculatory choice and
how important that is awesome man yeah i
actually have never asked you that
question and just came up and i thought
wow that we have never really yeah and i
think i think some of the other
landmark things around that was
in my life creating a creating uh
several unwanted pregnancies in my
twenties and and one in my early
thirties and realizing that i don’t ever
want to
get someone pregnant again
unconsciously i don’t ever want to
conceive a child unconsciously
and uh
and uh
so to develop that kind of trust in in
in in my consciousness to know my body
that that’s not something
that i would do unless i consciously
created that and you know the other
thing i want to say is that this is kind
of a sideline
but
you know when we talked about conscious
conception conscious conception isn’t
saying to your partner yeah we want to
have child we’re in alignment we agree
we want to create a child that’s not
conscious conception conscious
conception is a whole different thing
it’s a huge subject
it’s really connecting with the soul
that wants to come in and listening to
what they want listening to who they are
and really feeling like they’re calling
you
to bring them in and then to just feel
into is this is this what i’m here for
am i here to bring a soul in i’m a hero
to bring a child in or is it just my
conditioning or my own personal desire
that wants a child
so i think you know and
like i said the whole conversation
around converse
conscious conception is a whole other
video
that’s i was just actually talking i was
thinking
let’s do actually a talk about that one
day also because that’s so close to my
heart and uh thanks for for raising that
awesome yeah
and uh yeah that’s that’s is there
so beautiful talking to you is there
anything else you want to add well just
just to call out just a call to my
brothers out there and to women it’s
like
please um
step into our power step into his power
support each other and uh
and also work with your partners because
the woman’s energy i mean a powerful
woman is so powerful if she wants your
seed she’ll pull it from you so you want
to have your partners being conscious
too to breathe with you
and to feel what’s happening with your
body when when they’re making love you
know
when we merge
masculine and feminine male and female
when we merge
the masculine and feminine as we know is
within us
and then it’s reflected by our partners
but when we’re making love with someone
we do merge and so it’s what we want to
do is we want to become so merged and so
connected that i know exactly what’s
going on with my partner’s body and she
knows exactly what’s going on with mine
so if she’s consciously aware of my body
when we’re merged
she knows whether you’re going to
ejaculate or not
and she can unconsciously pull on my
seed
and it makes it real hard for me not to
give it to her or she can be aware of
that and there are different practices
where that energy can be directed and
and you can breathe with it and and so
that she is actually consciously not
pulling on your seed which makes it a
whole lot easier for if you’re a man to
not ejaculate oh that’s i’ve scott’s
the few
personal examples experiences of that
yeah i was pretty good at holding my
seat and with with
but probably two two lovers uh i had
that uh i could feel and i had the
conversation very in a gentle loving way
and the next time we made love you know
just about aware of the this unconscious
subconscious putting off the seat in
which you wasn’t even aware of it it’s a
pandemic it’s a program
yeah the next time we made love i could
easily you know so easy or you can
deserve that energy and that’s a really
beautiful thing having that awareness of
yourself having that awareness of each
other it’s a reflection of our own inner
feminine our own inner masculine um so
we’re doing this dance and really
supporting each other and it’s a really
beautiful powerful thing
i i it’s quite it’s quite phenomenal
when when when we all own our power and
we’re all supporting we’re sharing power
it’s a great lesson in sharing power and
being aware and conscious of the places
where
we can parts of ourselves can sabotage
and do things without the rest of us
even knowing that we’re doing it
and until you have that conversation
oftentimes women don’t even know they’re
pulling on a man’s seat and then they
start to wonder well i wonder if i am or
not and that’s the beautiful question is
to bring that self-inquiry so that you
can go okay let me bring this into my
conscious awareness
and and again that’s part of using that
energy and that that power for conscious
manifestation and this is a good time to
plug my book
sex
uh
sacred sexual healing the shaman method
of sex magic that i co-authored with
kamala devi and there’s a lot of great
exercises and basic uh
basic and advanced uh teachings and
sharings and exercises in there so it’s
available on amazon and
get a copy of sacred sexual healing
by
babadesh nichols and kamaladevi and read
that book it’s going to give you a lot
of good basic foundational how-to
information not just around ejaculatory
choice but also around sex magic and how
to use that energy to manifest dreams
and desires yeah i can vouch for that i
read the book it’s a it’s a beautiful
book thanks man it’s so much so so wide
it covers so many areas and i just love
the
you know the whole sex magic and
everything around that and beautifully
written and nice and easy read and uh
yeah no it’s uh
so yeah so please give that book
right and you know when we talk about uh
when we talk about relationships and
depth and intimacy when you start moving
into those realms with a partner or
partners and and you start really
understanding the sexual energy and how
you’re doing dancing that together
then
how powerful and how intimate is it to
be with your partner and start
manifesting shifts in reality together
and using that sexual energy and this is
this is the this is i feel where we’re
moving to collectively as humanity
starts to own their power and starts to
release the guilt and fear and shame
around sexuality and everything money
sex and power man
when we start to really align our money
sex and power with love
it’s going to have huge implications on
the planet and so yeah we’re just
wanting to educate ourselves and invite
more people to wake up and and learn how
to be conscious responsible powerful
adult human beings and take back our
planet
and make this the the beautiful garden
that it is that’s i feel like that’s
really our our quest over all these
centuries as humanity is we’re learning
how to manifest heaven on earth
and i feel every day we’re getting
closer and i feel especially today
there’s a lot of wake up happening so
it’s an exciting time to be on the
planet and
and start bringing more of heaven to
earth
yeah i think it’s rapidly happening just
in the last seven eight 19 years that
i’ve been on a journey
also just coming back to south africa
and cape town i can just see the massive
shifts happening here and uh
yeah it’s uh it’s because of you know
guys like you and the people you work
with so thank you for that and and thank
you for the talk
today
and love you man love you too brother
lack of time here down in
down in africa i love it man it’s just
such a beautiful land and such a
beautiful culture and uh and i’m
grateful for you and my life thank you
and thank you for sharing everything
that you do with everyone too awesome
brother that’s wonderful and we’ll have
a few more like a bryce
