Lenerd Louw good morning good morning Sham so beautiful to share this beautiful
sunrise with you oh it’s so amazing to be here man and wow good god look at
that i know it’s stunning it’s stunning so Lenerd Louw ex-ceo of frank.net
author of the book jump welcome to our first
podcast and in our series in our leadership series
today we’re going to be talking about your journey leadership in in business personal
leadership and then how your life journey
has enabled you to gain certain insights
that could enhance other people’s leadership journey in business and in life
connection to self is where we’ll start
who are you who is leonard lowe not the title yeah
but who is Lenerd Louw not the ceo not all of those labels how do you
describe who you are wow
i think i’m a ongoing journey and that’s changing day by day
so seven eight years ago very much in that title and uh in that role and
um and i defined myself then very much by the title and what i did
and now for me it’s really uh it’s really more in a journey and i’m
astonished and surprised every day by by by the new developments and the
changes you know as it moves so yeah i i can’t even answer that question
sir [Laughter] so would you describe yourself
as a journeyman as someone who is in a state of continuous new growth
exactly you know it’s like it’s it’s changing continuously what i am now as
opposed to even a few months ago i feel so different you know yeah and it is continuously changing and growing and
expanding um and i think i think if you go to start in a journey and i probably
i mean i’ve always probably been on in a journey but i very much kick-started 27-8 years ago a deep diva in a journey
and after i started that it really became it really became almost not defining
myself if that makes any sense you know so i find it almost difficult to say okay
to define it and because because it’s so it’s moving and changing you know and there’s so many different aspects
aspects and nuances of of myself um you know if you ask me in a specific
role you know you know it’s let’s say in a business role in a spiritual role you know maybe i can expand a bit well you
know stuff i’m doing currently and so on but i think the journey and the beauty of it is that once you start the journey
inside it it’s just ongoing going process of unfolding and layers that you’re dropping and getting it almost
sounds too narrow to define who you are is what you’re saying so i guess one of the things we can say is
that you’re now more who you truly are than you were before
yeah i think you know i think we
you know we come to this world you know and then as we grow up you know there’s so many layers that are you know that
that that we put that are put on us and that we put on ourselves and and then at a point i think we start uncovering
those layers you know and they let us come off and we go deeper into into our core and into who we are and
you know i suppose if you really [Music] you know i suppose you really get into into the
consciousness of things i i find you find going into your core you’re going into this
more and more uh going into into this once once consciousness
so oh wow man this this is going to be a very wild answer to that but
but uh i suppose i’m starting to find more and more i’m god you know and that god is inside me you
know and not necessarily in a in a narrow religion kind of way
or not at all in a narrow religion way you know not in any type of religion just this
beauty of this consciousness inside us you know and i’m starting to drop more and more into that
and that’s almost undefinable but it is just like a beautiful beautiful
essence and you know like this this consciousness of love uh i hope it’s not too hell of a deep
kind of no not at all i know i hit you with like boom with the biggest question uh
straight away and it’s usually something you need to get into but i think i’m hoping this beautiful sunrise gets
us to real talk straight away yeah and i’m so glad you mentioned um
because many of us don’t dare to mention the word i am god i think for many it would be easier to
to think that if you are of god and you are a part of him then clearly
you are also god especially when you’re getting closer to living in alignment
and what are the aspects for instance
of god that you see within yourself i think the first thing is love
[Laughter] and that’s uh that’s just the strong core of love you know love for myself
laugh for you know the god was in um and uh well i didn’t see this
conversation going straight into like you know god and i am god and you’re so right you know sometimes
we are we are scared to say that because people you know might take it the wrong way if you say who are you and i say i’m
god you know it’s gonna yeah it’s a wild answer um but i think we’re all god
you know i think this plants behind us the beautiful sunset there those mountains the water you know it’s all
this one beautiful consciousness and um yeah and so to get you back to your question the
yeah love i think that’s just a big part you know if i drop into my inner being and i drop into everything around me and
i look at those mountains look at this look at those trees there and i mean even look at the house you know that’s
also god everything’s got a consciousness everything’s got a vibration and
it’s all part of of the of of nature of the universe of
it’s just a beautiful um essence to it and the essence the best way i can describe that essence is like you know
just love yeah well there you go this there’s the answer
as the deep attorney continued and as i went into different
experiences and different workshops and different you know rituals initiations
um it yeah it just it just brought me to deep within and it was always i think you
know then then you know as they say you know the you know you respond or react you know and i started finding that the more i
responded rather than reacted you know the deeper and the more meaningful the the the journey became you know so it
wasn’t just like a instant reaction on something which often also happens and i catch myself but also like responding
really letting it sink in you know what’s happening and then see what is my story in that and you know
not and then not to respond from my story but to really feel it in my body you know what’s
happening and and then to move forward from that with with the
response from there and there i believe it’s it’s mainly two things we can either do it from from love or we can do
it from fear and anxiety and security um so every time i
had challenging interactions and uh challenging learnings
uh it often brought those up and i often saw every day my daily daily encounters with
people staff myself it often comes to that
how am i going to act what am i going to do decisions is this does this come from a place of love let’s say does it come a
place from some inner insecurity or fear so that was one of the things that i
think that probably accelerated the journey can you go back to the origin story
of the moment
that formed you that got you on the journey that defining period oh yeah
yeah and i actually explained it in quite vivid and uh agonizing detail in in my
book um and that was right about mid between
end of 2012 actually end of 2012 you know it’s funny enough just around about december 2012 you know this whole
mayan calendar thing is something really interesting there you know that december 2012
but yeah i was living on clifton beach and very much living the life you know uh ceo of a company and
um at that point a point uh you know a single boy and uh
probably also quite a single naughty boy and and i actually started
getting this call this inner call um to
to do you know something different with my life and i i couldn’t i didn’t didn’t make a lot of
sense you know so i tried it i distracted myself from from that from that with really working hard and
also partying hard um and from the outside this this this
picture was all all beautiful and glamorous you know living on this one of the best spots in the world i
would think you know that’s party um and uh yeah then one day i was uh
you know just walking on and this is after after about two three four years of distracting myself from from the
inner core that said that what is that in a call how would you how would you describe is that
intuition is it guilt is it it it it
it was almost neither shame but it was this there was just this feeling that i should be doing something you know i would walk into the office
you know and it started with with you know just just myself you know
you know they don’t start this business and or approach to start this business and it ended up with like 400 people you
know by after the three four years and i would just walk into this business and there were like 400 people there and
you know so quite a funky you know business you know very much uh
it was quite innovative right it was it was the first direct it was the second the one before was one
life direct that i that i started to launch that was the first direct life direct direct life insurance
business in south africa and uh and i had a lot of fun with that you know that was an amazing business got it out and
uh it was it’s a hugely successful business now um and then after that i got approached to
start start start business and but very soon after you know starting that and i just felt i
should be doing something different and uh thank you
and uh yeah that that was really really insane in a way so i would walk onto the floor
and you know open plan open plan sales floor you know i often walked on the floor very much talking about leadership style
very much on the floor talking to the young sales guys on the floor you know they love me i love them you know it was like a beautiful vibe in this this
office um so the people part i enjoyed but i walked in and i often would say no i
shouldn’t be doing this this was great i had a lot of fun starting businesses but i should be doing something different it
was just like a clear clear clear voice saying you should be some doing something different every
time i walk into the office you know you can imagine how pretty crazy that is you know you arrive there in the morning and
you build this thing and and and you have this clear realization you shouldn’t be here anymore it was all
cool what i’ve done up until then but it was almost like this this realization you maybe call it
intuition that’s just thought that i should be doing something different and that was quite confusing because you
know the question is then okay but what and i was like but this is what i’ve been building my whole life doing my whole life you know
and that i tried to distract myself from that voice
you know what one would say if you’re not aligned if you’re not happy then how successful a leader are
you going to be but for all intensive purposes you were a successful leader
and especially in the previous business of one life direct business very much so um in the follow-up business um yes we
started a great business great vibe great culture um but um you know the moment you walk
into an office and you walk into a space and you feel you shouldn’t be there i think it affects your your that the
business and affects your lead your leadership also so i’ll be i’ll be quite vulnerable to
say that i think in that last business i probably you know wasn’t a great leader anymore you know because i felt i should
be doing something different um i mean the guys still still still loved
the place they still loved me but my heart wasn’t in it anymore brother you know and that came out in
terms of how it affected your leadership but also the distractions that started to
manifest in your life in your life as a way of not that’s exactly it addressing the the
truth of your feeling or living in alignment with what you’re feeling is telling you that’s exactly you know but yeah i think that’s it i think that it
became less important to me and i was also getting pretty bored with it you know the i’ve been in direct businesses
for many years we were in the novelty in a start of it in the 90s early 90s you
know when everyone thought these things won’t work in financial services and we proved them all wrong and that was exciting man it was exciting to be in
that space and then with one you know that’s in a short-term insurance conscience space and then with the one-life direct 2006
and so that was very much also you know taking life insurance director you know everyone around not just south africa
around the world said no you can’t do that so it was really fascinating exciting it was it was it was great you know but
then a few years later starting the ladder business you know everyone was jumping on the on the direct spot you know so everyone was and they’re also
not doing it necessarily in a cool way you know we’re just calling people cold calling people from all over the place
so and we you know we never did that we we put adverts out and people would call us you know we did it was a total different
approach it was not so intrusive um so i started not enjoying that anymore and i also was quite bored with
you know i’m i’m a builder i’m a creative but and things are already running you know to i’m not a
maintenance guy in a way also and especially um yeah and i’m a disraptor you know so i i
i i got quite bored with what i was doing yeah so my why changed um but i
think it was also a deeper bigger inner shift that my soul was ready for
um to go back to clifton
not a bad place to have a dark night of the soul right oh shame you know most people are going to go what the hell i mean you had a
dark night of the soul in clifton beach you know i was like one hour away from the beach beautiful view and the front was the
atlantic ocean and the bay you know there was no wind in clifton the wind blown cape town but it never blows in
clifton man because lion’s head splits the wind you know and if i look back from the pad i was and i would see
lion’s head and a further further back table mountain um and then the front the whole atlantic
ocean i mean there was another deck there and a swimming pool and jacuzzi and the side
and uh yeah so a lot of people might say wow that that’s terrible
how can you say you had this thing but that’s that’s that is exactly the message you know it’s not about what’s
the outer is what’s the inner you can be in any most beautiful place in the world if the inner isn’t okay and then you
know it doesn’t matter what the heart is yeah so yeah so so yeah so this this this this shift
happened you know and i distracted for myself for a few years with that um but this
this and then this lift and walk happened you know so i’m really kidding i’m sorry that
we’re slowing down that process but you know from a leadership perspective everything seems to be going
right then there starts to be misalignment and
now the focus is not the organization not the leadership of the organization but personal leadership
exactly okay i went like now god you have to look after yourself you have to go into your own personal leadership as
you call it and that’s when it started becoming more clear and clear you know that um that there should be this change
and that that accumulated one day um over the weekend i think a saturday
morning and i got up and and i went for a walk in the beach um and you know you know the setting there
it’s beautiful white sand and it’s like almost azure blue sea beautiful sea and sky and
flakes of cloud in the sky and terrible mountain on the other side you know towering up high above and uh
and i walked for five minutes and i was pretty bored man i was walking here and
all those things i described now i didn’t see i saw it but i didn’t see the beauty of it
uh you know it was five minutes i walked outside and i think i just can do something and i you know it was five minutes from the beach
and i just got bored with it i like and and i looked around and i thought but you know i always loved nature i’ve
always been connected with nature i could go for walks in nature for hours you know i love nature i love being in the mountains
i love being in the ocean and being in the sea you know um and then
so that’s been always been me and i was small my dad would stop the car we were like traveling you know somewhere i
would always be in the bushes in the forest you know and then i carry on driving and after the halfway stop you know they
would have to look for me i’m in the bushes you know um so this was a big thing now
we’re not seeing nature yes exactly coming from that you know being so connected to nature and then
all of a sudden walking on this beach and then feeling you know this is i don’t see the
beauty and when i i realized that same time that i’m bored and i don’t see the
beauty i also realize that it is beautiful but i can’t see it so anyone else walking yeah or most people walking
will see this beauty and be so privileged and so happy to be in this space and i wasn’t
i was feeling pretty unhappy and i was like you know this is i can’t see it
so i took the steps up home went home called some people and had a hell of a party you know so
to to make myself feel better but that moment of state you know that rock bottom clifton
walk state the next morning i woke up and i knew sure almost getting emotional yeah i
knew things would never be the same again you know i i just realized that i had to read rock bottom you know if i
couldn’t see i suppose the beauty and god all around us you know i you know come back to
where we started i couldn’t see god anymore i couldn’t see god in a in in the beautiful nature and trees and water
and mountain around me and and then i knew uh yeah no that’s i i need to change i
need to move and change everything in my life and it starts in that that had to start with the workspace so
um yeah it was only like a few months after then i started putting things in place to leave it was only six seven
eight months later i was you know i lived and then with that a lot of other changes also clearing a lot of other new
stuff other stuff out also no changing the voice was also very clear you know it was when i asked what i should be
doing it said you know clear out all of the old to make place for the new because there was a voice
it was almost what started happening you know that intuition that feeling you know when you know walking onto the
sales floor and on to the company that i shouldn’t be uh you know i distracted for a long time but at this point i started asking then
when i realized this rock bottom clifton walk and i mean okay i need to go you know yeah uh i need to change things
in my life um and and everything really you know um
i basically asked myself you know the the message was quite clear you should be doing something else with your life and then i
i i didn’t even ask a question as i said for three four years i distracted myself but eventually then i went okay let me
listen and then i asked the question back so what should i be doing then you know and if i say
and then it was just silence there was no no realization there and i mean okay and then
that took a few days uh you know no answer and then i and then i
then i changed the question slightly and i went you know so what should i do to find out what i
should be doing [Laughter] and it’s amazing then the answer was
and if i say voice it’s not like this this person speaking feeling like it’s like a feeling it’s like a realization it’s almost like a
boom i know i get these knowings you know so even in business intuition i get knowings you know some people hear
voices some people have sensations in their body some people just of knowing and also wrote an amazing book about
intuition and i always had i had big intuition and business i would always know which adverts work you know that so
my i always had a big knowing so so people are knowing has been always been a red line
those moments of knowing so just before we carry on with the story how does that happen
is that you quiet in your mind or is it something that hits you like a light bulb like how does that happen
it’s like it it’s it’s a it’s almost an immediate dropping
in to use this example so when i asked that question what should i be doing
to find out what i should be doing with my life it was an immediate knowing
of clear out all of the old for the new to come in
and that was just this that was immediate dropping in you know it’s like uh you could probably say uh
your bolt of lightning is probably uh you know that’s probably close to it but it’s almost it’s almost like in a quiet
way you know this large screaming it was just like this quiet knowing clear out all of the old it was it was like this
voice kind of knowing of clear adult it was just this realization you know the same way you know as
business the guys would put three four attributes in front of me and i would just go and i’m like that advert is going to work
you know and we often test it you know adverts and see which work and i was like almost you know almost always right you know so i did
all the studies and that knowing it sounds like it’s not a visceral
feeling because when people talk about feeling we always talk about gut feeling you know in i think in general not just
in business but you’re describing something slightly different yes it’s almost it’s a it’s a it’s a
realist realization it’s almost like a download it’s almost like uh uh i would just know i would look at
that adword and you know and i you know i just knew that that was just gonna work i also wrote
i’ll show you know the indian mystic yes
so you know him uh may’s amazing amazing stuff he’s brought into the world and he’s got some beautiful teachings on
intuition and he’s got a book well he didn’t write the book he never wrote a book it was always just discourses then people put
it in a book and this book about intuition amazing amazing book and he described there the
three four different ways of of intuition and how it comes to you and as i may as i say some some people
get pictures some people get like feelings or goosebumps in their bodies and their body and uh and some people
have just the knowing so i fall in that category and it’s just annoying it’s uh it’s just like a realization a download that you
that you get and yeah that’s where you can describe it so we’re still in the question what
formed you so we spoke about uh this low point
um and then a knowing but you know very often
unfortunately and for many people again when we talk about leadership
we don’t always do what we know and um
you talk about the word jump tell us about the transition from
knowing into jumping
yeah yeah that um
that uh that knowing kicked in and then i think the jump was quite quick after that so
it was really just getting some practical stuff stuff sorted and you know and and you know
exiting the business in like an orderly way you know for the business and for the people um
and um then it was i was going out to us with
with with a wonderful woman at that point for four or four uh almost a year
um it was also jumping out of the relationship because i knew
i had to clear out all of the old you know and and it was also jumping out of
cape town and jumping out of south africa and jumping out of everything i knew
so i exited the business in a relation or the end of the
relationship came together with leaving the country and going on this journey around the world i mean it was
she was amazing once actually dropped even off the airport you know just got inside space but we we just knew you
know from our spiritual growth you know and i still got a lot of love in my heart for her and she’s
married now and and beautiful children and that’s that’s that’s makes my heart so happy um but i
knew i had to and she also knew and she was very supportive in that way i knew i had to jump out of that also and i and i
also knew sitting in cape town and just i had to really get myself out of the comfort zone i really had to put myself
into something totally different and yeah and just took me and take myself totally out of you know that
ended up being south america which is also jumping out of the comfort zone of a language you know arriving there and i
mean i don’t know you know south america you know you know we’re so used to english as a world language south america hasn’t
uh they haven’t heard about that yet that’s spanish there man and so english
don’t take you any far so um yeah so it was jumping out of all of it
jumping out of the comfort zone getting on a plane and landing 2 a.m in le mans peru and
with almost nothing and also almost selling almost everything i had you know and or giving
it away and uh yeah it’s just starting something totally different and
so i i almost i think people will enjoy to actually
uh read the book and go step by step on the journey with you so
without describing it that after jumping the journey started to form you yeah
and as you described earlier it started to form you by continuously presenting you
with with opportunities to either react
to what was unfolding in the journey from love or from fear yeah um
now that you’re you’ve come back from this journey which was was it five years
it’s yeah it’s about five years five years around the world and um how many countries 35 countries wow five
continents amazing amazing and if you know look at
we covered who you are what formed you um
now that you’re back my question to you is what will form you
moving forward what will you do
with all of these life lessons how will you live your life moving forward
what i’m doing right now is sharing my experiences that’s the first thing that that
comes up on when you ask that question shame is that sharing my experiences with other people
and what i find is as i share my experiences it i get it it forms me even
more you know so i’m sharing my learnings and i stay far away from the word teaching
you know i’m no teacher in any way you know so i do workshops
and facilitate stuff and and both online person person you know
guiding mentoring coaching whatev whatever you call it but um but it it is it doesn’t come from a teaching place
you know so i because i think if you teach then you almost take the power away from the person and you’re there and you know you
teach them and and they can also relax because now this teacher is telling them stuff you know so i don’t like that model i like really
where i share my experiences and the person stay in their power yeah and i’m just sharing and they can
take and use what what resonate and what is their truth so the more then the more i share my stuff
the more i get formed because it’s a two-way process you know i share my experiences with people but other people
would call ted and i teach and i get so much more sharing or teaching back you know what i mean that’s interesting
and and i’ve always found it in business i was in my late 20s in the uk when we started a
business there um and i was i was you know i was already
training branch managers in almost an operational side of the business and and uh at a very young age and they were
like you know guys in the business i was training and they were like wow then you know thank you for all this training i said guys
you don’t understand i’m learning more from you than you’re learning from me yeah and that was even in business you know i’ve always had i always had that
experience that i learned as much from the people that i’m that i’m training teaching whatever you’re going
to call it uh then they’re from me and i’ve and i’m finding it the same nothing has changed
it’s i i get so much back and it forms me back in such a big big way
so i wanted to ask you about that in terms of so i know that the life lessons
um that you had you’re applying in a much broader sense than in business right now
and i’m not sure how many times you’ve actually had this question in the more recent past but
how would you apply the lessons that have formed you if you were
to go back to business or for people who are in business or what can you share
well yeah that’s a good one um
yeah i think the first thing is to to operate from your heart man you can’t do anything if it’s not from
your heart and that includes business and business is actually extremely spiritual
you know on this journey i came obviously on across so many spiritual
people and and i stayed in communities and hanged with hippies and you know whatever you
know uh you want to call it and a lot of spiritual people and some people that i found is
it’s like oh your business is like you know you almost said get sometimes i get the the money thing is bad or business
thing is bad and you know and often you know uh it’s also just because some of the
spiritual people are also not fully integrated you know they still have got a lot of work to work to do and i often say to them and i often had
even a bigger realization you know on this journey of minor that business is extremely spiritual and companies are
extremely spiritual you create this entity now you can create this entity
with different energies you know and if you create this energy with with love when you create it from the heart space
it’s going to be a total different entity as when you create it with let’s say exploitation in mind
so the stuff that that business will bring to the world will be vastly different depending on what energy it’s built from
and the energy that it comes from is what it will be you know if you build it with uh from the heart and from love
it’s going to be a heart life business it can’t be anything else and if you build it to us you want to exploit people that’s that’s what the
energy will be you can’t change it afterwards it is that um and that’s what it will bring into the
into the world also um and what is i think so fascinating is is
that even though it’s that the second business that i mentioned you know if you bring it from the exploitation it
won’t nearly be as successful as the business from heart and from from low so so there’s there’s so many reasons to do
that is that it will just be much more successful you know if you don’t want to do it for the for
just from the heart or lab space you just want to do it for results that’s also okay you know but
you’ll find that it’s going to be much more successful business yeah and the people and the journey is going to be
much more enjoyable and the journey exactly the people in the business are going to love it you know so they’re going to love it and so therefore they
don’t want to leave you man so you have less recruitment costs if you build this like business that comes from another
energy the people are going to leave the whole time and you have to re-employ new people you know it’s harder it’s much harder it’s going to
cost you you’re going to look at the bottom line it’s going to kill the business eventually it’s not going to go further it’s going to be harder along
the way so so i think that is
just a beautiful place to leave it because that’s such a strong point of a journey that started in business
that you went around the world for so first you know for five years on this epic journey not related to
business and now you’re practicing outside of business and sharing your knowledge outside of business
but you’ve left us with something beautiful profound deeply personal
uh that that those of us who are in business can be inspired by by the fact that if you have a
heart-centered business there’s so much more that you could achieve with that then i have to thank you from the bottom
of my heart for sharing this time it’s lovely to see you again and
just so keen to keep following your journey oh thank you sean it’s so beautiful thank you for the chat and
thank you for this beautiful setting that you that we did it in it’s uh what a beautiful start of the start of the
day thank you cheers love you cheers
