and we are live Hyland and how you feeling early great great being here
thank you I don’t even mean I had to give him a little rundown of just relax
pity that they took the whiskey out of the out of the studio I didn’t have a shot before the show but those of you
who are listening live welcome to the first podcast episode of my new show
bear back stories thank you so much for being it and to my amazing guest Leonard
Lowe thank you so much you’re actually sitting right next to me because we’re having taking challenges and we’re
sharing a very sort of phallic looking microphone are we oh it’s really cozy in
it’s right next to you is great to being
early thank you for being yeah we’re gonna get to the and the book in a second but what I want to do to introduce you is tell everybody
well actually ask so I was thinking about how to introduce you how do we
introduce Leonard Lowe what do you get when you take one part multi millionaire
corporate CEO all right mix in two parts playboy with a
lifestyle on clifton beach sprinkle in copious copious amounts of cocaine MDMA
ecstasy [ __ ] I don’t know weed booze chicks sex drugs was there rock and roll
rock and roll sprinkle a hell of a lot of that and then mix it up with this incessant or
top it off with this incessant gut-wrenching stirring chatter boxy
that won’t shut the [ __ ] up that’s in your head it’s in your gut it’s
pervasive and it doesn’t let up for a very long time and as much as you try to ignore it
as much as you try to ignore it it’s gets louder and louder and louder until
you basically say [ __ ] [ __ ] it right and
you jump and then we discuss how you jumped is that is that a good analogy of
what we’re gonna talk about today [ __ ] I couldn’t have summarized that it’s
better at all this beautiful summary yeah that’s it that’s pretty crazy well you wrote an amazing amazing book
Leonard Lowe has just launched his first book which has been published by MF box
Joburg Melinda Ferguson called jump a memoir and man did you jump I have to
say and I’m not just saying this because you’re my first guest I couldn’t put it down I finished it very quickly it’s it’s
called an epic travel and soul adventure okay so let me start off straightaway
with my first question okay this is the first question so many people are gonna
say Oh shame a rich [ __ ] who had
all this money to just give everything up for five years travel the world do a he likes have orgies have sex parties
meet chicks all over the place have have the ability to I’m having an unending
smorgasbord of spiritual journeys and more drugs and try everything do
everything and then came home and wrote a book lucky him yes ready give me your
hair so so I can basically say I know that you came and you were looking to be finessed and you were looking to be
romanced into this first into this question answer the first question and Here I am I just shoved you up against
the wall and but but but in my defense
because the listeners can’t see us I am holding your hand I’m gonna hold your hand throughout this whole experience so
what do you say to those people because that’s probably the first initial attitude judgmental attitude
that most people are gonna are gonna have towards you and towards this book that you’ve written and this experience that you’ve had yeah no it was a pretty
crazy crazy Tom and yeah the thing is that breaking away from all of that
stuff you know was was was really really tough was really hard so the rich
[ __ ] went through some really really tough Tom’s so put us in the
picture let’s go back let’s let’s put the context down for everybody who’s listening how did you start so you were
you were in the corporate world making loads of money just give us a background I mean you were happily married you had
children you had a good relationship with your wife as far as I know a good relationship with your kids making loads of money before we get to the clifton
pad and and and all that not just your life your background how how it all came to be yeah pretty much was enjoying what
I was doing you know business-wise and work-wise on a business side really flying and I was I had been divorced for
like good god ten years or so but great friends with my ex-wife and a husband
and you know great relationship with a kitchen us on that front really beautiful a beautiful support structure
from really my my my ex-wife Phyllis and
the rest of the family so it was all cool I was going out with a girl for four years living in Janice Berg before
I came down to the Cape and you know all was flowing you know there was no you
know emptiness in the space it was like you very much in the flow in my life and when I moved down to Cape Town you know
like all hell broke loose like was like a perfect storm you know it’s a good hit on to do and you start a new business down here and at the same time also
split up was worth with the goal of us ever looking for your relationship worth so you know I once thought another family she wanted to so there was no way
out you know so we broke up and you’re a new city new job
from from from a relationship space to being single and then also just this
shift that happened you know this this internal shift that happened inside me so all those other things added but the
internal shift is the thing that really created the dissonance when you talk about that shift you talk about that
voice that incessant voice that just wouldn’t shut up so that only really started correct me if I’m wrong when you
moved to Cape Town after you’ve broken up with your girlfriend and in the party lifestyle started or did it start before the party lifestyle know very much all
of those things all those changes at the same point and at the same time that that happened you know this voice an orphan is that that voice probably
started in talking Indiana spoke already and I was really starting to feel is
this what I’m gonna do going further with my life you know and the business and career front it happens so then I
loved what I was doing you know so so I sight it can give you a but listen going
to the hand side now I’m sure we’ll talk about that later and hindsight it makes a lot of sense now what happened but at
the point in that point in time I had absolutely no [ __ ] idea what was happening
so that so that shift that voice just started and then because of almost resisting that shift or that voice the
pain and emptiness started you know that that was it so did you literally just
was it a feeling when you talk about the voice was it just like I see you suddenly started to feel empty because
you had all the money in the world a great job you you got on really great with your employee employees you were
very fulfilled there your two children that you loved and adored and had a good relationship with a good relationship with an ex a loving relationship with it
with the minute with a new woman in your life at the time something was really wrong in your life but you just started to get this this gut feeling yeah that’s
that’s what that’s what’s so crazy about it you know and that’s why I thought it was going put it pretty mad because we
just like walk into into the business space you know and it was it was a great environment you know that people was
like a really nice informal space and created the business like you know like we want it and but I just I just felt
you know I should be doing something else with my life and happen so now it was great fun and you know it was just that I should be doing
thing else you know it was just like a feeling you know just a you know I could almost describe it as a out of skin
feeling often you know I’ve looked at myself I said there was this camera in the corner of the window after of the
room looking down at me and I was looking through that camera at myself playing this movie of my life and it
just didn’t feel authentic you didn’t feel as if I wasn’t my own skin and I had always been in my skin before and I
was always I was always always a little bit you know out of the box a little bit crazy a little bit maverick you know that’s the businesses we always had but
I myself always felt into in my own space in my own skin but this actually
made me feel out of my skin you know it was like really quite a big disconnect and that disconnect in like far what is
this and then I tried to drown that out and you know track six a lot of women
all of that helped a bit were you in that space I mean because you’d been
divorced for a while so the party the party lifestyle that ensued in Cape Town and in this Clifton bachelor pad that
you had and that’s how the book pretty much begins it’s not a very long part of the book it’s actually how many page not
even what 25 to 30 pages of this
smorgasbord this orgy of life trying to drown out this voice but it’s it’s very
very it’s so well written and it’s it’s it’s exciting and it’s hysterical at the same time no no not to take the piss out
of you but I mean I’m just I’m just thinking here you know just you know for the women listening so you know you’re
picturing this this this one night where you’ve got like three naked chicks on the coffee table and you’ve got another
one I don’t know you’ve got a back in your hands or someone I get these candles everywhere and someone’s hair gets a light and it’s mayhem and we
mustn’t forget the jacuzzi there’s always a jacuzzi because Leonard hasn’t has it has a huge love for for jacuzzis
so there’s always a jacuzzi and you know this this party goes wrong but I’m just thinking it’s it’s it’s always it’s more
than not it’s it’s the it’s a mann’s bachelor lifestyle or party lifestyle that is written about or spoken about
but they painted women like it you know the affiliate women who can who can appreciate and
and wonder what it must be like to reverse the whole situation so just give
me a minute if I just take a moment and just imagine so let’s me I’m imagining so now there’s three naked guys on the
coffee table and I’ve got a man’s back you know and and they’re about in my hands and someone’s hey get some fine
it’s me so you know it’s just so that the girls can have a have a moment as well for themselves and enjoy but you
know to that party just that party I’ve actually only started in Cape Town you you weren’t really involved in that you
were in a sex addict or or or much of a drug take or a party when you when you enjoy become making all that money no no
no I was in a and I like a three four year or almost four years relationship and we didn’t take any drugs you’d have
like a few losses a while no over the weekend you know and and you know I was
pretty thoroughly faithful to the girl I was going out with you know I surf and I was focusing on my my job and you know
we had fun we know we had a lot of fun and touring and overseas and you know she and I had a lot of fun but
definitely not in a party space so that really happened when I was was coming down here you know and so it was as I
say a perfect storm you know all of this happening and y’all know that first 24 pages of the book is packed I mean
there’s back to the sunny 25 pages but it’s back to your right but what what do you think what caused you to suddenly
just like a wand you go mad in this do you know consciously why you suddenly decided you just like dabble in that
lifestyle oh I always loved six I mean so six was my go-to I think I suppose so
the alcohol the drugs was just just just you know facilitating it to be honest with you it was just really making it easier and giving energy but yeah you
know some people you know so so I had to I was resisting this this shift this internal voice you know the different
ways you can resist this voice and a lot of us have this and we resist it you
know you know sometimes the six and the drugs and alcohol get the bad rap but
you know you can also work yourself to distance the same thing by resisting the voice you know it can be at work until
late at night and the whole weekend you emails and not even speak to your family or go you’re not want to be hard on
there mountain biking cars but anything mountain bike yoga running jogging go
for like ten hours on a Saturday in ten hours in a Sunday and then in the week you know so basically I think there are
many ways to drawn at the voice you know a drug of choice you know as we grow out in a book my drug of choice was just
supposed to have sex just sex and no one’s knocking you there but look and
not to jump very far forward because when you talk about someone’s drug of
choice or that addiction everyone most everybody seems to have an addiction of sorts and yes it doesn’t have to be
something that is a chemical that is known to be illegal and unhealthy and
can make you sick or kill you because stress can kill you too from work etc and you know not living a truth
but and it’s there’s a part in the book much later on and I almost waited and I was waiting for another ship to take
place for you to come to start to realize and understand another part of yourself which I found because of who I
am and what I’ve studied in what I’ve personally found fascinating when you started talking about how you someone explained the numerology of of you of
who you are and your number and because I can go straight away to understanding that three that addiction number you
know your birthday which is you know part of the whole astrological numerological journey which which I have
been on and I love talking about but the fact that you got there with was an amazing little scenario in the book I
must tell you I really enjoyed that because it it it it humanized the experience on another level even though
you weren’t taking something or having a spiritually enlightening experience or a
physical experience you’d be surprised how that really grabbed me and would have a lot of people who understand when
they look into the numerological and astrological understandings and pinpoints of their DNA how I’m
fascinating that is but I digress so you so we’re going to fast forward here so
this is going on and going on and there’s a part now as you’re winding up
this section of the beginning of the book where you’re taking these solo strolls
on clifton beach which is one of the most magnificent beaches in the world I
haven’t traveled nearly as much as you and I know you’ve traveled the world but you you have to agree and that
loneliness that sadness that feeling of is this it just washes over you like a
tidal wave I mean the way you write about it is quite sad um which is that like that knock that knock on that gets
you to say you know and then do what you do which leads you to give it all up which is where we’re sucking I mean must
have thought you were out of your mind how did your family handle that yeah I mean just to talk about that that walk
and clifton beach leader i mean i was just crazy I mean you know it’s I agree that’s fog I mean I’ve been or 35
countries all around what now I was there on and between 4th and 3rd Beach you know like and I was walking there’s
beaches and you know that that setting is that just unbelievable but um yeah I just that I call that my crushing rock
bottom Clifton walk you know it’s just the one day that I walked I’m allowed many of those where are you kind of felt
like that but this one day it was specifically bad and I just hit me that I looked at all the stuff around me
another and you know the white sand and turquoise water and the type of mountain I up and all of that you know and I
write about it in a book and kind of realizing that this must be beautiful
people are talking about that this is beautiful but I couldn’t see the beauty of of it at all and I just totally been
run over my head I was like looking at it and factually okay I continue you know almost like a robot you know like a
robot would look at the humanity and like is this something beautiful and you know as from objective point of view
potentially but for me I couldn’t see the beauty and that’s why I always had that you know I just said yeah my gut
was clenching my first choice was contracting and I just knew I was in big [ __ ] and they enjoy you’re right people
thought it was pretty pretty crazy and one hand they thought that another hand I’m alright it was it was also a
lot of a lot of support and but could have from the people close to me but broadly speaking people lived and even
the people close to me didn’t really understand what was happening no I can’t imagine a lot of people I’m listening to
you talk about that and thinking you ungrateful bastard you have everything you in one of the
most beautiful cities in the world and that comes along with the whole idea and when you’re living in in a city when you
in a situation you’re living in a way where you’re not present where you can’t find the gratitude and the joy you know
it’s interesting that that word comes has been coming up a lot for me the last few months but the joy in life so many
of us at least go through a moment in our time in our time here or a longer a
longer time where we we are struggling to find that joy yes exactly and you
know you’re talking about you know so people often kind of who you’re kind of the most this this thing you know and I
they look at people with with a lot of a lot of a lot of money you know I specifically don’t actually have that
anymore give that back most of that back to universe before my start of my journey you know it’s in the book but
just but just broadly speaking in a lot of people with loads of money and you know some of them the most miserable
people you know on the planet you know internally you know there might be might actually be nice with other people but I
can see they’re very saddened and and miserable so frankly money’s got nothing to do with it I mean yes you need to
have at least something to to eat and they died and over and have a warm shelter but you know there’s a nice
shelter they down the road they’re called by a walk often walk past it and I’m looking at it now and I think you know slightly they say there was nice
and warm there and that’s something to eat you know some jumping maybe right on to the potato to the end of the book but
you know so so you know so such so much more beautiful to be where I am now than
sitting with funds and sitting with lots of money and but the deep emptiness inside and I think a lot of people you
know people especially people that don’t have the money you’ll feel they’re the people that are loaded loads of money look at these people and think oh you
know you’re lucky bastards but you know they don’t know that it’s totally irrelevant it’s irrelevant how
but how much money you have and what you mean so post a certain level of existence it’s totally irrelevant no I
understand and we spoke about this when we first met and and and let’s not let anyone get us wrong here money is energy
money is positive and it’s how you use it and it’s always the mindset and consciousness behind it and you weren’t
saying are [ __ ] it I don’t care about it anymore give it all away and it I know that you appreciate the fact that
because you had an amount that you could after giving most of it away sustain
yourself on this journey for almost five years was very you were very aware of
that gift oh for sure I mean a huge gratitude when I talk in
the book about it and a lot of people didn’t it doesn’t have is this this opportunity to take like five years out and and just travel the world and learn
a lot of stuff you know learn along [ __ ] in and be able to to fight for that and do that so it’s a man’s gratitude of
doing that you know and obviously worked a lot of years to get to that point but yeah you didn’t let me ask you this did
you did you because you you lived a very simple existence in all those years you
didn’t travel five class and five-star places did you consciously decide that
you were going to just go on on a voyage or travel experience not knowing where
you were going with and how long you’re going to be very simply you wanted to do it very simply or did you find yourself
that you had to because you’d given all of it away before you decided to take a [ __ ] a long journey frankly when I when
I lived I didn’t know what the [ __ ] I was where I was doing and where I was going and I just like got on a plane and I knew I had to break out of the comfort
zone go overseas and okay now the voices told me you know move out all of the old for the new to come in so frankly I
didn’t stand start with any preconceived ideas but as a journalist Clara Don I
just become less and less important to me and I mean to be honest with you I wanted to stand hostels and not an expensive hotels even if you know never
mind just the money part of it but you know and that’s expensive hotels you could this boring old people sitting
there and they then want to talk to anyone and they complain about everything and waltz in the hostel chick you come around you can’t come in
contact with the real people in the country and the travelers and so on so and as a troubling you know in the
first month or two in South America I was still taking taxes shaven they you know every now and then yeah and they
but but at a later point I wasn’t you know I was really like when I got to India and talent and later on also in in
South America I mean I stayed in in hats with rock mattresses on the floor I mean I was in Thailand I could have stayed
like two years the lighter off into the journey I could have stayed not from not funny for a few dollars a night you know
like 14 dollars a night I could stay at all weather with white floors and a Akon and I didn’t want to I just wanted to be
at my hat on the beach on the stilts with my mattress and the the floor in the corner and his little Basie but at
the bouncer everybody boss woman and in the back end you need hot water so warm they sorry I just felt so much more
authentic to me I just loved that I just loved being so close to nature and so close to the people so I’m sure a lot of
people are wondering why why did you feel it necessary to give all your money
away so couldn’t you have I mean you have kids you want to leave a legacy to
them you know this is how people mostly think I’m you know I’m some izing here
and why not just hmm give give a lot of it to charities start another trust and
put it away and then you know take what you need and go on a vacation why did you have to actually liberate yourself completely
fundamentally of almost every cent that you had worked really hard for many many
years to earn Nippert know practically I gave it away bus by selling a lot of
properties that are bottom in other market you know so that was the practical part of it you know so yeah
and I knew that it was you know it was very good at cooling the property market you know the waterfront about properties
so I said well double in three years you know which he did you know in early 2000s and stuff and when I left it was
around at the bottom of the cycle and I am and I knew it was gonna double again but I I just took that view to to do
that because I just felt it wasn’t that important to me anymore and then you know sports legacy console
I don’t actually believe in legacy I don’t think we’re to leave a legacy for us also anyone actually we just yet to
experience life so I don’t think you know and I had the same thing with my parents you know when they wanted to
start a trust and stuff and you know I said what you wanna do any of that I mean just live your life spend the money
and which they did you know I was done if any inheritance coming my way and the same with my kids I don’t know it’s
necessary to nearly anything I think do you have sorry do you have that attitude now because in hindsight or did
you have that attitude before when you were making all your money and you have you always had that ideal you’re funny
enough lead right there when I left I kind of maybe not articulated as articulated it now but I had that
feeling and I just had the feeling that it’s not important to me but I always had that feeling about the legacy thing I was I never could get that people say
let’s leave a legacy yeah I still never really could get their ass done no I really don’t get it at all so yeah so
that was just the the space that I was in at that point it was kind of just easy to you know what to do that it was
kind of not important okay so now now we’re gonna jump right in you’re at the
airport you’ve got a one-way ticket to it did you buy a return ticket and where are we going so where did you go one-way
tickets I mean our one-way ticket to Lima in in Peru why I guess this is
pretty crazy give you the shorter the long long story okay I wasn’t my way to New York actually I was I was going to
[ __ ] you know now in hindsight I can talk about you know all they are rising and constitutional all of that do
problem sure we’ll get to that later but let me take me back to where I was then I was is pretty pretty confused you know
I was like [ __ ] you know they first told me clear out all the old laughs I knew to come in which I did you know and and
my first reaction was I’m just pretty bored with this business being you know you know to direct insurance 20 years
ago was like a new and most novel and so on but by then everyone was starting to do it you know so I was thinking I was
kind of getting not kind of old hat you know so I was thinking maybe I’m just bored with this stuff I should look at new businesses in new ideas and stuff so
my idea was good in New York and study new innovation there look at you know businesses maybe we
could study it something a university they’re in a social media space marketing space amazing amazing well we
thinking amazing you know where I was our you know we only work from a mind
rather than from our merchants and our feelings then we can only look at what what what is now history and what is in
our mind behind us you know so my mind tried to solve it and so therefore just
look back and all it could look at his business back and then it projected that fort okayed must be new business and then it turned out to be [ __ ] to
something totally different but yeah so that was the start of it is our Bonnet Carre New York and they are so the
temperature charts was like sub-zero temperature which is a bit flippin called a view from Africa that’s what
[ __ ] that’s not gonna work so throw goddess to to Southeast Asia or South America cuz southern hemisphere
while summer and I Moran abide by my lb and New York and and then it was very
much ok flip a coin between the two and then I went okay well was that was
fascinated by the Incas so let me go rather South America and Southeast Asia and then I went okay I would love to see
my picture and then I went okay so we where the [ __ ] is my picture then I went
on Google and I checked our case in Peru I mean okay how do you get to Peru you flight to Lima as simple as that so I
bought it to one-way ticket to Yemen I landed a 2 a.m. on Tuesday morning and
now you’re in Lima and you gotta get to Peru so and you don’t know a soul right yes I
mean a beauty or the either I rather 2 a.m. in the morning and I [ __ ] as amazing III I just knew I didn’t on this
jr. I shouldn’t plan anything in outside now at Ella bucked I just arrived at 2 a.m. in the morning got the closest taxi
and when I walked out and just say it take me to the miraflores area we could no that was close to be the spanish school us and then we just found a child
a nice badger to tell that i that i thought i mean that i stayed for them for the first week so absolutely
funny enough that the voice just told me right from the start and plan anything just arraigned it to life and i was
reading a few books about surrendering to life in a spirituality space i don’t really get it but I kind of got
that you know maybe not planning stuff is a big part of this thing so yeah
that’s that’s an essence eat its I arrived there without any plans but the
one thing you did do was I know you took books in your in your in your knapsack in your backpack but you you stayed on
social media you stay connected to friends on Facebook and you started blogging right that’s right good night
but I wasn’t even on Facebook well I kind of I think it was on e but I wasn’t I think for a few months and I was never
using Facebook at all I mean I wasn’t interesting enough that five years and kept on I had more interesting things to
do than being in social media was I or
that’s five years was really I couldn’t imagine sitting on fire on social media when you’re on the deck and lots of
recreational drugs in you know that’s amazing my bad I know my body is I was in a best physical shape of my life I
mean you know I was that because of all the back yeah I think it’s all the [ __ ] I mean it’s it’s simple I think it’s a bit exercise I mean it’s great
for your core muscles it’s you know it’s great for your six-pack it’s correct for your heart lung capacity it’s it’s
really really good for you are we gonna get to it we’re gonna get to that chapter you know we coming to that okay
I’ve totally forgotten would be America
okay oh yes she was saying the best condition mark oh yes yes yes and and and I was yeah I was also training a lot
to know and doing a lot of stylist stuff okay so you were saying in South America South America was you know I’ve just
been the first week they’re going to do the to the Spanish school and studied Spanish and then I was talking to you
about staying connected on Facebook about you know then you started to blog because that’s actually the essence of
how you translated all of that and came to write a book good thanks very much
putting me bug in the drug six kind of memory is that he’s thrown me out of that yeah that’s exactly it is that
before I left you know that the girl I was getting the girl I was going out to his for and my friends my buddies were saying to
me you know please go on Facebook said that that we know you’re still alive and then she actually looked me up on
Facebook and showed me how Facebook worked and I really wasn’t in any of this stuff you know the the weaker was
running a business and doing emails and stuff on the weekends I don’t really want to look at any screens you know it
wasn’t my space but yeah so that’s really interesting so then I said okay what I’ll do is I’ll post where I am and I’ll put things on
there but please don’t expect any comments when we are answering any questions or comments or like even looking at it you know and which is kind
of what I did you know people would ask questions I would really even I was just put it day but that actually became
fascinating because then you know I started almost blogging of my of my travels in South America where walls and
so on you know and every week or two weeks you know not regularly but then the light on a journey I started going
through these crazy beautiful workshops and then I was starting to talking very openly about that and then people were
just going wow this crazy guy from Cape Town he’s doing all these interesting kind of stuff and then I shared that and
then people started following that so learning the language was very important to you obviously because you wanted to
be able to have a conversation with the with the locals which was very admirable
because a lot of people don’t care I didn’t give a [ __ ] they’re like if you don’t speak English well then you know and we’ll use sign language or like piss
off I don’t want to talk to you right why did you feel you needed to learn the language you didn’t know how long you were going to be there
good god I mean in South America if you can’t speak Spanish you a little bit [ __ ] you know it’s that it’s really
it’s a fascinating continent you know I mean English you anyway in the world
almost you okay and if we go to even in in in the East and Southeast Asia
you know most places you’ll find South America if you say yes or no people go like what you know they they don’t
understand you know they’re you know as simple as that people don’t speak English in that in that continent you know broadly speaking you know so you
really have to learn that a bit of Spanish you know so so that was one part
and other parties [ __ ] out for some reason I was wanted to learn Spanish and that’s amazing how these things work Lee I mean like 20 years ago when I was
working in the UK I almost started studying Spanish later idelle wasn’t going to do in UK but it’s always called me you know
it’s amazing how these synchronicities and these things work in us has always been a call so yeah so it was just great
I wanted to really connect with the people by speaking the language and to be quite honest with you the beautiful woman in South America and you know I
wanted to talk to them and you know there’s no way you know you know obviously that I got you know I would probably talk about the celibacy thing
but any celebrities think I mean but I also thought it was important to talk the language not to to to interact with the people I can just imagine all those
first words and sentences you wanted to learn all the lines but to just impress
them it didn’t work
you didn’t need the language so sign language so um let’s fast forward a bit
I want to ask you about that first because you didn’t know or you weren’t interested your whole life basically
about understanding more about the esoteric world the world of spiritual
wisdom you said eww you you you read a few books have brought them along on this
trip but when was that first face-to-face moment where on on your
travels whether you were still in Peru or not where you can say that the the
world of mindfulness and awareness started to resonate with you started to
really study not be you know not not so much integrate but just started to resonate well you didn’t roll your eyes
and go oh god this person’s a bit of a you know wacky yeah it’s fascinating
maybe we can just mention before I lived South Africa that last six months on obviously I was I was I started reading a book the monk who sold his Ferrari
right by Robin Sharma and that kind of helped me a bit I mean to to actually leave and to leave leave the stuff so
it’s a long and I’m starting to read Paulo Coelho books you know when I was over there you know so so in some way
these callings and things were coming to me and like in a subtle way I suppose um but then to answer your question in
terms of South America very much when after I got got very ill with the parasite and I was [ __ ] you know I was
like a lean fat lean 82 kg when I left South Africa was really a real in great shape Ian was wasn’t not just
the six I was doing martial arts I was doing boxing I was swimming in a swimming pool it at at you know at the
German workouts and you know in the week I didn’t party only pot it in the weekend so it sounds a bit sharp I’m alive and then it could all record
parasites and they’ll drop 10 kgs of pure pure muscle you know not just muscle and I liked from 82 to 72 so by
the time I got to Guatemala six seven months later I was you know that the things we eating me up alive I had four
courses of antibiotics and antibiotics we’re gonna kill me before the the parasite you know before the antibiotics
you know we’re gonna kill the parasites you know it’s it’s as simple as that it didn’t do it ain’t in the parasites and
then I arrived to this the like lago atitlan like a tatlin in guatemala it’s
beautiful like high up in the mountains and there’s someone also guide the hostel there’s any one year that no
natural course you know remedies for for parasites because i was given up hope with a normal normal remedies and then
he just told me about a guard on a corner doctor bowl you know I can see the guy in is quite famously in village
and deliver gates in its shamanic Guyon from a North American Indian tribe but also in a medical degree in us most
degree in psychology and all of that stuff and in event win when I when I arrived at dr. Bell’s place and he just
looked at me and he pointed to my stomach and he said oh I can see the energy leaking day that’s where we thought what the [ __ ] you know normally
I would have been out of there cuz I mean for me it was about you know is it physical is it tangible that’s what my
left brain always been my life you know but I was so damn desperate that I would have ran around the like and is it
pretty big like you know few Tom’s if he told me that instead of my head you know it was that was going to help so yeah so
I just listened to this guy and you know out of that you know a few things fall out you know that he that he told me and
referred me to and and and that’s really where we think started started changing
so now with that change obviously when you first got to South America and you
were traveling you were learning Spanish and meeting people having and it was beautiful and it was warm and summer and swimming in the ocean and living
hostels and meeting all different people and women hopefully I was meeting women
when I wasn’t doing anything with their mom was I was either I had this kind of crazy celibacy space so now how did the
syllabus how did the celibacy grab you and take hold of you after having come
out of this sexual what dream world that
you were living you know just a few months before you hit South America
you’re traveling now you’re single you want to meet chicks she said that’s why you want to learn the language and now
you’re suddenly gonna be celebrating so how did that happen and why you know it was very clear that I you know that was
part of the journey and I even went to do salsa dance classes you know sir so to you know to be able to at least
socially interact with people in with with with with with women they and I in South America if you can’t dance you also a bit fact you know have to speak
the lingo and you have to be able to dance so yeah so so that was that that
was very much the space that I was in but you know I arrived there in generally and and it was amazing you
know I I just didn’t whenever I would interact you know I was staying in this house tones with a lot of beautiful
you know women around you know a lot of a lot of people a lot of really amazing people that I met on along along the
road but you know I would I would I would just have the interaction of a discussion and then a physical side I
could feel like in a wall I’m you know interested in to interact here and the moment it looked as if it was going to
anything physical I would just I would just emotion withdraw and you know my
soul withdraw my immersion withdraw and number two actually in the book the the the the chicks would feel it and they
were to go like okay that’s weird and and and and I couldn’t explain it you know it wasn’t a mind sim you know it’s
easy to say oh I made up my mind I’m gonna be said it wasn’t it wasn’t my mind never decided any of this it is
just this strong inner voice that became so loud you know I mean I must supposed to talk about the voice there in the
book and page 2030 about surrendering to the voice you know to leave everything and to govern this journey so the same voice was saying to
me I mean you know take it easy and I back off about tune you know it takes take a
break so I was just listening to that voice and so that’s how that happened you know that’s how I it just happened
that I that I eventually I kind of stopped interacting with women because I thought I was playing games you know like talking to them and I’m just
withdrawing you know but it was it was an amazing thing you know inside I know it makes a lot of sense but then it was
also Chris very confusing now of course I was just going to say that it must have been a very confusing time because
it’s not like you had input you know impotence and the desire had always been
then the desire was there on a level but on a deeper level it was on a soul level
a way do you what do you think that this voice your time had come where you
actually had to the healing that had to take place on the the emotional physical
spiritual levels in your body was such that you needed to actually preserve
yourself physically parasites aside was were you even aware of the fact that
that was your healing that was actually starting to take place or were you so confused about feeling that you needed
to stay celibate even though you wanted to be with the woman were you scared [Music]
scared I was always but differently confused so be honest with you I didn’t I didn’t do it I didn’t understand it as
healing the anomaly I mean in hindsight is very clear this is that exactly what it was but then I didn’t understand it
you know maybe there was some software voice saying you know this is important I mean that’s why I followed it you know
it was easy to override that and in my journey you know in that two-year period of celibacy the war phases that that I
did over are it you know in mirror you never heard it and it’s in the book and you know after a week of that or two I
just mean [ __ ] guarding this but this is not what I want so so for 99% of the
time I was listening to the voice here you know for the whole period and it was a hell of a confusing day now in
hindsight is crystal clear you know I had to create to integrate button in the feminine yet I have to stay away from
the art of him and a night to go this deep an inner journey so and leads you to studying and coming to
experience ten tantric sex and Tantra and what did that do few because you never you never been interested or you
know worried or wondered about you know a lot of people have this video idea about Tantra being oh it’s like you know
this this essential massage and then there’s no and orgasm at the end of it so what the facts the point and it’s
like boring and you’ve got on and on and on and you like breathe and you touched each other and then you know what does
it do for you so I mean when you were first introduced at this and when you started to meet people who were
experiencing this and doing workshops with Tantra did you also did you kind of have the same sort of mindset and just
think hey can we just like you know I just want to get in there and get on with it and you know have a good time
and give a good time no it was actually crazy it was actually when I arrived there in Hawaii where I did the first
first of these trainings and then it was broader than just Tantra they used to enter a lot of Tantra principles but a
lot of other stuff also and referred to them as the transformational school and on the TA school in the book of change
the names and I must say it was kind of
homecoming it’s really interesting it was sure kind of actually feel about immersion thinking about it yeah it was
a homecoming and I year was people that that kind of Anna ye could understand what I was talking about so even though
I had those crazy Tom’s in Cape Town you know almost all so making love for two three four hours and even the girl I was
with before we were making awful long long hours and a lot of people couldn’t understand the stuff you know them my friends and you know men don’t talk
about out of my club in any way into each other in a apart from how I did this and that and you know more like a
one-line boast but I didn’t they don’t really go into the sensitive detail of that generally speaking it’s obviously a
generalization so yeah so I didn’t really know that I’ve never spoken to
many people about it so when I arrived in the Y and our offices first the level one training day and I was actually at
Tantra first of all the week before that I come and come into contact with all of these people and a lot of meteos na was
like i guising you know like five ten minutes stare into each other’s eyes and look what the [ __ ] this is pretty crazy
and but I’ve always been a tactile person so it’s interesting that came so
natural I mean I actually just slot it in I mean some of the people said why was this your first one is no but I just
slotted into the space and and you know then in the seven day initiation
workshop you know it just it just flowed and and there’s people that I could then talk to about a lot of the stuff that I’ve been doing an hour so I was doing
you know the the the you know the orgasm without ejaculation you know before I
even heard the word Tantra you know it’s just a pretty pretty crazy I don’t even yell that word before as strange as it may sound and they don’t
know why I went to the Tantra Festival and then speaking to people that you know the same experiences that I had
when I was with one of four-year relationship even before the party dies and the party dies it was even easier because some you know recreational drugs
make it even easier to do that so a lot of that that tons of stuff you know you call it that was stuff that was kind of
prison to my life you know so that’s why I’m saying fact this is such a magical universe we living in there are the synchronicities and the threats and the
stuff that that’s this is crazy I agree so I want to go back to something you
said just a few minutes ago about not having anyone to speak to win-wins when the celibacy’s took hold of you and you
started to be a little scared and not understand what was happening to your body on a physical or physiological
level and and your mental level did you speak to anyone did you have anyone to
share with and open up to as a man as you generalized and said that who don’t
usually share their feelings share their worries share their especially when it comes to libido and the body and
everything did you find any anyone you could have that type of a relationship with on your travels or anyone from home
and did you share it on your Facebook pages in the blogs oh not at not at that
stage I mean that’s before the learning started on that on the workshops and stuff survived and after that stage it
was very very little that I strayed on a personal space so yeah there was no one
really to talk to you and I no one on that travels no one no one back home and god I was there listen you know I went to speak to on that basis um when I
mentioned that to dr. Bowen he talked about the energy he actually said that to me before he was and is in a book
you know he was actually just before I said anything waved his finger and my my you know in front of my face and said
you know and you must get laid now after you told me about this energy leaking I was worried how did you know about that
and I told you about this experience then he introduced me to you know God woman living around the corner home and
I adapted the English girl of the lake change the name grace the English girl of the likes to pretty close sister now
in my in my travels and I discussed that with her um and yeah she came from
rising rising advice you know she didn’t she couldn’t explain what it was about but she did say it is important to
yourself pleasure it’s important still to masturbate even if you don’t have sex [ __ ] homicide added that has been that
was an amazing learning because now I can understand how people can get blocked from their sexual energy because
I was celibate for so long I also started going in a sexual guy like me I was starting getting a little bit
disconnected from my sexuality and I would walk in the streets and see some you know pretty woman in the rounds and
I wouldn’t necessarily interesting I wouldn’t like myself became lace so her
advice that you know if you sell a but still to move your energy around in your body and to masturbate and sound into
self pleasure was actually beautiful advice and so I took that app and but I
saw you know I still had that bit of that that disconnection happening you know so so you know in a way it’s a it’s
a beautiful learning you know I can see people around you know around me and I can see the blocked energy in it it’s
easy to happen you know the moment you disconnect from sex sexual energy for long enough Tom it almost goes away and
you and you know then after what you don’t know what you’re missing anymore and it’s such a critical important part
of our life our creativity I couldn’t agree more and I’ve had many of these conversations with friends of mine male
and female who’ve gone through breakups cetera and you know we when we go through divorce and when you when you
started on this learning on this learning path and you start to learn about the chakras and you know the seat
of the foundation of our bodies that root chakra that base chakra and then the sacral and the solar plexus and and
that Kundalini energy that we have to keep flowing and through masturbation and self-pleasure and Moon
even if it’s just exercise and movement that creativity first because those are the chakras and those are the parts of
our of our physicality and our bodies and our emotional states because it all it’s all connected and our mental states
that allow for us to heal and allow for us to create and allow for us to find a way to begin again and find the next
path the next journey where we’re meant to go and when you cut that off and you did in it then it’s you just you you
almost cut yourself off at that place of where you left off in pain in sadness in
fear in ego and not understanding that you know you got to keep walking through
that tunnel to get to you know the next light that shows you you know I’m not trying to plan so over for the sauce
philosophical here but you know you’ve got to get through that darkness you know what they say the only way there
any way out is through so beautiful talk with you very kind thank you but I want
to share with the listeners I want you to share with the listeners because you started to write poetry and you write
beautifully and there’s a poem because you had a wonderful experience in Prague is a very important part of this book
and for those of you who are just tuning in or listening please go out and and
and get this book Leonard Lowe’s first book he’s just written called jump a memoir it is incredible it’ll make you
laugh it’ll actually bring you to tears and it will make you think it really will and you wrote a beautiful poem and
I’d love you to read it for us here let me get them page can you see yeah cool
so it’s just that previous point [ __ ] exactly talk about that for another hour
or two just that would Europe what you mentioned there I mean that’s crazy you know cause I’ve been so close with the
stuff over the last few years I can see that you know it’s amazing I can actually see it in people’s energy after like one minute talking to them I can
feel it we just women may know something I can feel with it I probably pick it up in women more than in men but you can see the block energy
and you can see you know that doesn’t matter how much yoga and seven not knocking yoga yeah but how much other stuff you’re doing if you don’t get your
lifeforce energy moving you know you might be living your full potential okay shall I move on to the is this perm
have a name did you did you tell it no you just wrote it okay it was just when
I was in Prague and I was in one sunny day in Prague sitting next to the street I wrote down my thoughts and produced
him on my doing the update on Facebook later the day yeah really thank God for
leaving my life in Cape Town three years ago I didn’t know what I was doing or
why but I knew I had to had to jump off the cliff no parachute no wings just
threw myself off the cliff a leap of faith falling falling trusting I knew I
had to bolt my wings on the way down and [ __ ] ever been building because I didn’t
want to die I didn’t want to split to myself on the rocks far below but I had
time because this was a [ __ ] high cliff the highest scariest one I could
find and I’ve been building growing wings slowly at first I was still
plunging headfirst faster and faster in the wings grew stronger they slowly
started to break my fall stronger bigger they grew until I realized I wasn’t
falling anymore I was flying well more like gliding but now I can
feel the power and muggings I’m slowly starting to flat him my god they are powerful they’re starting to lift me am
I am I starting to saw I know they’re going to get even more powerful beyond
my wildest dreams they are lifting me higher yes I am flying yes
I’m starting to saw now what what brought you to write that write these
words and write this poem about growing your wings and starting to fly because it’s it’s more than halfway into the
book it’s it’s you know closer to three-quarters the way through Yod was this gratitude it was this
gratitude for you know I was sitting there in Prague and I was sitting next to the river and I was like sitting next
to this beautiful river this beautiful city beautiful buildings now and and a
beautiful insight you know lot of beautiful sand that’s intense but yeah it was just it was just beautiful and I
just felt so much gratitude for that when I compared that to my crashing walking clifton beach and a an outside
living the life having everything but and inside you know being really empty and so it was mainly gratitude it was
just gratitude for making that jump you know of course you know we can talk about jumping or we can jump and i kind
of made the jump and you know and and i was just very grateful for that so now
I’m gonna back backtrack a little bit because you didn’t see your children at one point for correct me if I’m wrong
around eleven months and that wasn’t planned you you wanted to because you had the money to at least bring them in on some of the travels and you were
gonna connect so because I know I mean later on and you had this beautiful
experience with your son here back in South Africa as is almost like a coming-of-age after he left school and
everything taking him on the and you had you know had these amazing times in the Karoo which will get you but that might
that must have been really hard well what you did was you you almost committed to becoming from everything you were learning and everything you
were integrating and everything you were trying and all these you know even even
the you didn’t do ayahuasca though you did you you did but you that mushroom
journey is something that was far more what’s go was very much more motive
clear clear the parasites out in South America yeah and then did a san pedro journey in Czech Republic and in the
mushrooms in in Ireland it’s what I meant was that had a more profound
effect on you because you were in that space already when you did I washed it was just like oh let me just try
anything to get really bloody Pharisees like to stop losing right but you you
started facilitating you joined the the group and you started facility
hating these students for other people I mean when I read you know the one the one journey when you when you’re all in
the group and you go and you have this experience where there’s a whole lot of you and you pick your partner’s through
you know a clever way that you you so no one can just judge you have to you know match your plan to your flower or your
or your chosen Rock and you’re going to now have an experience with a complete
random stranger of the opposite sex and you’re going to have this tantric
experience I mean there are a lot of people no matter what you’ve learned no matter how long you’ve been traveling no
matter how open-minded and how much you’d love sex or whatever to be with to share intimacy with someone that you
don’t know is is hard enough for for the most evolved people I don’t you know I
really don’t care anyone says that’s my opinion because you it’s a very short
space of time you have no you have no time to to speak or really understand
their energy or who they are on any level let alone smell them and you are you are facilitating an experience and
you’ve got to take yourself out of a place of judgement and fear and
embarrassment and humiliation giving and receiving I mean you almost waiting and
I almost [ __ ] like you know there’s a part of you want to run Howdy’s people don’t run away no exactly I mean it’s
it’s pretty crazy you know you yeah it’s very much some as
simple as that you know you’re walking in in in the room and the music is playing and like you know when you stop
you know okay the person is in front of you that’s your partner Oh
or even worse than that is like okay find a partner you know god that’s good so that’s pretty pretty pretty crazy you
know so so even for me it was it’s really tough you know so it’s some of these these these trainings that I the
seven-day is like a seven-day training that like from the bar from like 9:00 in the morning till 10 at 19 do it for 67
days and 3040 people in that and you go into deep vulnerability and
and it’s amazing the stuff you know that you do you know I mean I and I’ll be honestly I Greeley I mean it’s this but
probably the most out of my comfort zone I’ve ever been the most I’ve been stretched and uh you know I went to that now I was still in that in that
generation will be dad to go to the army and all that nonsense you know you know study a lot of stuff at the University
and I like you know and I was in you know a trade business quite stretched my
life quite a lot in a lot of spaces you know so I’ve been in in tough spots but
that’s probably the toughest one hour I’ve ever been in and it’s because of the vulnerability you know we think it’s
you know tough to face something you know you know heart and but the toughest
toughest thing to face is a vulnerability space and that did that is hard you know so and I’ve seen that
people in someone as a participant in that space and light I did a little bit of facilitating calls in that space you know some some you know and in with two
couples here in in down there down in South Africa it’s amazing to see where people go you know if you give them the power to decide sorry themselves and but
but but the transformation that you get out of that is amazing because you only when you go deep and when you go into vulnerability that’s when you really
really get to this stuff well you know true intimacy is a space where it it
almost I just when I when I say that word I I see it as a as something that
sits in the bosom of vulnerability and most all of us I don’t know if most of
us actually if we were to be brutally honest with ourselves actually have even
an ally come to later years and and and if we looked at ourselves and looked in the mirror would actually agree that
we’ve ever really experienced true intimacy with somebody else or allowed ourselves to go there and that’s a very
very terrifying notion and that’s something I was very conscious of when I read that part of the book because I did
I felt like I wonder because I put myself in your shoes and I wonder I’m a pretty open individual so I think and
I’m not afraid to share my feelings and listen to others and you know
facilitate that space but I got to tell you it makes you think like to be in a
space where you are allowing such true intimacy with a complete stranger
and you are both allowing yourselves to be so vulnerable yet you feel so safe and so liberated afterwards but to go
through it it’s the scariest most uncommon for me because the most uncomfortable part of the book that I’m
you know reading it that I’m sure I could I could sense it from you oh you’re beautiful you know differently I
mean in the same same with me up until my whole life has been like that you’re not I’ve connected the people but I always get my some kind of shield around
my heart you know I’ve all skipped some you know some intimacy space in there like you know safety and but what I found is that
that in in that vulnerability is but his power and his really strength you know
and and that’s also wind life lifts through you you know so that’s exactly you know we knew we knew we knew what I
found is when I know I was resisting that to go into vulnerability and into the intimacy of that you know I was
living I was during my life but the moment I actually in these workshops and with all of these stuff oh you’ve really
pushed today to the nth degree to go they you actually drop into that vulnerability then it’s almost as if
there’s a barrier that’s around surrounding you that that falls away and life can come to you and through you
so the energy of life kind of I believe kind of heat you know but of a barrier
around us if we’re not getting vulnerable or into intimacy and the
moment we we drop that we’re going to vulnerability then that the energy of the universe just washes right through
us and that is really what makes us alive that’s what’s really great all this bliss and kind of happiness and
this full experiences of life now not just a happiness also the sadness really flew sadness most things but you also
feel happiness more intense but you feel life more intense and I believe you can’t go there without being vulnerable
no I mean look listen to what Brene brown one of my favorites and talks about it it’s an it’s scary for men and
women I don’t care it’s not just a male a male flaw or something lacking we’re all you know the true
I see and do you think that if when you look now when you look back in hindsight
having experienced what you did with the complete antithesis and the total opposite end of the spectrum with all
the sex and the drugs and the partying and the unconscious and I’m not knocking
it behavior because there’s a time and space for all of it and experimentations etc do you think if you had never ever
had that life and if you had just gone from being an a workaholic you know striving to make money like a
robot then then listening to the voice and then going on these journeys and never having had that wild aside the
impact of your journey would have been different for you [ __ ] beautiful
question God well you know sometimes we’re talking about these things we it’s amazing I sometimes talking about these
things our learning drops to another deeper level I mean you know you just dropped me into another deeper leave early seriously it’s amazing you know
not spot-on I mean I mean thought about it exactly in that way but it it’s spot-on the fact that I went to that
extreme and that in that and in that in that sense also brought the other it’s almost like a pin little pendulum
swinging you know into that that extent of my way unconsciously you know just having sex
and it wasn’t about in your auto emotional connection and and and then the pendulum swing is the other way
around – it’s not very much about heart and social connection but as you say not knocking other it’s all experience of
love I believe we are to experience life you know God experiencing God you know
be explained and their journey of separation you know and I’m a journey back into oneness and and you know so so
I think by going for me in that space and it’s fascinating I don’t think it’s a coincidence that my my DLC my drug of
choice was or sex I mean other thing is no coincidence there’s I think it’s a full on some chronicity that in light on
a lot of my journey wasn’t a spiritual sexuality shamanistic space so I think
experiencing that at that point before I left it was well that’s profound and
then allowed a deeper dropping into at a later stage beautifully said and I want
you to we’re going to have we we closed you read a beautiful section
one of my favorite parts of the book but before we do if you wouldn’t mind there’s just one sentence I would like to read your words because it’s it’s so
beautiful the sentence that you wrote I believe that an unpleasant emotion or
experience is vital because it carries with it a message escaping is a missed
opportunity to learn more about yourself that’s what I mean that has to be one of
my favorite sentences in the book as well that’s why I made a note about that so because when you were in the
beginning and having that last sigh you’re not you’re not consciously trying to escape you were just living you were
having fun you were getting lost you were you were you were doing something you hadn’t done when you were younger
you know you got married you had kids you were drive tractors driving to make money and security and support and you
know do the right thing you’re a good man you weren’t having affairs etc etc etc so now you’re just having fun and you were in it for all intents and
purposes you were single so you weren’t really you know you weren’t harming anyone harming yourself you know and that’s key you know so no judgement
there and and then on this experience that you have all these years when when
you when you had your there’s a there’s a moment in the book where you have your
son come and pretty later on he he finishes school because you you didn’t
see your kids for most 11 months at one point and and I know that was very hard for you because they’re very close to
you and it was really important did you did you share a lot of the journey with them as you were going along are you
that open do you believe I’m een there not now you know staying keeping that
dialog and they’re truthful openness between them cuz they were younger did
you find it easier was it important for you that you you shared everything with them or did you try and protect them in
some in some ways on the journey when I was I was seriously oh you’re no
different – Aiden quite a lot of detail with him I mean and the fascinating thing is they started talking to me
about things that you’re not just because like I think they could feel the energy now there’s a part in a book there but my
daughter nothing when she was 15 my son 17 we’re sitting on up in the mountains in Barcelona that monastery up once a
rat’s monastery up there and she was asking me you know you know daddy when you think it’s a good I just have sex for the first time and wow man he just
had this beautiful discussion or rounding it and I mean good god I mean and I mean I was so happy when she lost
that question I keep the straight face but I was unhappy because now how many kids would you know austere thoughts who
would asked a dad that it was such a beautiful such a situation because then we could talk about it and we had a really like a hour-long discussion about
it and it said but if that is in a book and and it’s beautiful so that this journey deepened in my relationship with
my kids how much and a lot for us for so much to be shared and you know later on
also you know they some of the discussions that that that I had with him you know some of them I think
they’re like two years in or so I was having a self-pleasuring discussion with him and that was a little bit too much
my daughter she she left the room with us but but my son was really interested and but you know I think she also got a
quite a bit out of that you know and so so it’s amazing you know it’s amazing
that I get calls from them asking me you know very much personal stuff and so
that’s great it’s just nice to have that open channel of communication you know so they’re not scared to discuss anything even if it’s a sexuality space
with me that’s very important and also a very important part and your dad your
dad being ill and suffering and you’re looking at his passing and you know in a
very different way did the the the mindset the experience help you because
it’s such a you know it’s a difficult experience even if you’re not close to
your parents because it’s you know it’s a it’s a fact of life we’re all going to die when we have lose our parent no
matter what age I don’t know sometimes if it’s if it’s harder or easier I’ve
still trying to work that out whether if you’ve had a you know worse or a worse relationship or a good relationship I
know from from my perspective I was very close to my father and I always
worried that his his death would would be too difficult for me it would be too
too impactful and but then I came to a
point and also I’d had my journey of studying and everything in our school I always have so grateful because from my
understanding I got to a place where first of all I knew he was reading and he he he was older but also that falling
apart and and losing oneself in the depth of that despair would it be in a complete insult to who he was and
everything he had taught me is is how I can understand it and and integrate it
but you know you write about it so pointedly so beautifully it doesn’t take
away from the pain do you think the experience would have been different
had you not come through almost five years already when this happened oh you
know for sure no doubt about it I mean I think I would have been I think I mean I
think I would have been sad you know that if you died and died and I would have much more difficult to to it of you
know to handle it whilst I mean I know it sounds crazy but I don’t get sad
anymore when people die you know just I mean there’s no there’s no sadness you
know that it no there’s a tenderness you know and it’s a great feeling of
closeness but this now there’s no no emptiness it’s fascinating you know
there’s so there’s no emptiness that when were they the the day that he was there in the day that he lived there wasn’t as if there was any change really
I still feel him around me you know and and and that’s I think that’s the journey definitely had played a massive
role you know there’s so many themes and so many things in this book and in this journey in our sexuality is the one thing the other thing is conscious dying
and conscious living in us I spend a lot of time thinking about that and and and and reading about that and working
through that so yeah when he died it was like oh okay it’s just that it’s just changing form he create from the
physical form no to another form and I’m still come in with him and you know I
was saving the ideas old and you know I said to me and I was really Gaia knives like real you know the
traditional kind of you know that’s all in generations strong solid man you know and he said to me like a few days before
you know I had a good innings but I want to be bowled out now so I respected that
I mean so how would I be sad if he goes I mean I had a beautiful time with him so yeah so for me it’s it’s differently
it was it was a beautiful confirmation almost of my journey that way I felt you know after his passing soul in it what
do you think life would have looked like if you hadn’t had this experience call
sobered you up babe Donna you having a
downer I took you from that moment I’m
gonna keep you on your toes so yeah I mean what do you think cuz we’re gonna get a few moments what do you think life would have looked like for you if you
hadn’t had this epic adventure Wow I mean there few options the one option
is that was OB and lived in Beachbody mum my head off but I probably won’t be alive I mean I don’t think a body can
handle that much you know of any thing good team what bad thing so yeah I don’t
know it would be quite different I mean up and away there was no choice I mean I
it was very clear that’s just what what I had to do so I follow that so I can’t almost imagine what it would have been
not doing it I mean I uh I would probably be in a space you know
doing what I’m doing but without all this you know but basically my personality and my soul would be
disconnected from each other this this basically what it is you know no you know and the book long had the diet at
that question you know so what happened and I was saying well the the soul and personality one wasn’t one pass until like five ten years ago and then the
soul said well it’s not time to awake to something else in your life and that pot boss was now another part and my
personality was still on the regional part and basically what this five years have done is just brought my personality
and my soul bath in both in alignment again so it’s as simple as that if if I
hadn’t done this journey I would be two on two different parts of my personality and one part of my soul in other parts
we massive disconnect in a massive emptiness and massive other disastrous effects to your to your life and to your
relationships you know your family your children a lot of people close to you because you you can’t really be closer a
thing to with anyone else if you’re not closing authentic with yourself so I
think that’s that’s in essence you know the beauty of the journey it just brought it to in alignment I couldn’t
agree more if you can’t have a relationship with yourself you cannot have a relationship with someone else and it’s all relationships let’s talk
about you know life is relating we’re relating all the time you don’t have to have sex with someone to be having a
relationship so I’m not gonna ask you
where to from here I don’t okay I know I do but I’m sure you’ve you know that
like what I want to know one of the last questions is I can ask you what’s the
biggest lesson but what I want to say is
I’ll ask what is the biggest misconception that you finally realized
after this journey let me think about
that okay and why do you think about that I’m
going to just punt your book one more time so Leonard Lowe’s book jump a memoir an epic travel and soul adventure
incredible book and art in bookstores and it’s not all I mean we’ve spoken a lot about the the mindfulness the
awareness the the the travel journeys and all the experiences that you had a special awareness and opening etc but
there’s loads of funny funny enlightening hysterical parts actually earlier on I mean there’s a chapter
about how you broke your [ __ ] yes everybody I said it he broke his [ __ ] and it’s a true story and if you want to
know what happens yes you can break your [ __ ] book and as I say that men are like
burning inside at the idea of breaking their penises but yes it can happen it’s
[ __ ] scary and I’m Jose bloody aina but have you gotten to the great
on to the question there’s a lot of detail on that chapter about y’all good okay you read the chapter yeah I think
the biggest misconception I know I think is you know for me is that you know wow
no no to to you know to Michael to make money or security or leave a legacy and
all of that stuff ooh or even you know asking why why we you know I think
that’s that’s because misconception people trying to figure out I think that gets in the way of being yeah
so I mean you know I think we you know we’re to experience life you know it’s a
experience and we came yet to learn something and to experience something and to experience it you you have to be
in the moment enough to be in the now so yeah I think that’s I think that’s almost the biggest thing for me and I
wish I knew that a long time ago you know you know dear for all those other reasons you know really this beautiful
gift of life and to make them most of it and just to be present in every single
moment of it as much as we can that’s beautiful and has it changed your your
way of looking at sex and there’s nothing wrong with having rumps and you
know mind-blowing crazy you know episodes of you know [ __ ] as opposed
to making love but has it changed your idea of it because we’re not knocking in if there’s nothing wrong but what’s your
what’s the difference now for you I think I think for me now is that that I really want to have a hard connection
have sex or it’s kind of kind of quite obvious but in some way but in some way it’s not that obvious for a lot of
people and for and was definitely not for me so yeah I mean I don’t think is
anything wrong with having threesomes I don’t if it’s anything wrong with [ __ ] your brains heart I think it’s
great if you can do it with an open heart and you can do it with like you know connecting the deep level with a
person or the people you’re doing it need to earth you know
yes I know cheating is very authentic you know if you were Cintiq with the
Buddha with the people you were send you and you’re connecting on a hot space and you and you and you realize you’re
actually making love to the to the spirit of this person it’s [ __ ] deep you know you really get into our deep we
are connecting we’re making love it’s [ __ ] crazy it’s scary it’s deep it’s beautiful it’s wonderful it’s it’s
creation it’s that’s vulnerable it’s like I mean you to be vulnerable it’s like getting that’s the best way to know
God is to make love to someone with an open heart until you know it into get into contact with the creation and you
know and and and yourself so yes I think I think that’s the that’s the I think
there’s space for all kind of kind of ways of making love you know whether it’s gentle and whether it’s like really [ __ ] hard it’s nothing I think it’s
beautiful I think the hard connection and the spirit connection I think you know that’s that’s that’s beautiful of
you can do it from that place from that place so you to find the person that you can have that authentic heart opening
heart space with I agree I want you to read this beautiful it’s not a half a
page um part of the book near the back it sums up so much and it’s just written
beautifully that would like to go out with the listeners hearing you in your words in this beautiful book that you’ve
written Leonard Lowe’s jump a memoir so from its no plans yeah I want to give you the
torch
with no plans no goals in her destination no map I had set off on my journey only a
backpack and an open heart hours aware that my goal this approach went against everything in popular belief so many
motivational speakers coaches teachers and gurus expound on the virtues of setting your goals and believing in
yourself to go go go get what you want but I was more interested in surrender
rather than control I wanted to fully see what existence had to offer what else I had committed to do
before coming to this life in this place that required less goal-setting and more
deep listening listening is difficult it’s far easier to set goals and to talk
but once all the fearful internal chatter had died down I was finally able to listen I found the place of surrender
and in the magic happened I began to live in the flow following the energy
seeing wait let me i began discovering the world anew seeing it through
unfiltered eyes with every step I took I began to discover me because every step
required a direction that direction was born out of living the moment and listening carefully listening to the
voice listening to my heart listened to my soul listening to existence the
whispers were they there had always been as I stood out as I stood and looked out
over the world barren landscape over the sand dunes and rocks at the Sun sitting
in the distance over the Atlantic the following familiar words came back to me up to year you had free will
some control of your life you were living life but from Iran it will be
different life will be living you absolutely beautifully written and it’s
very difficult to follow on from there so what I’d like to say were the last minute or so is to to thank you I’m very
grateful that you found the time and this we had the synchronicity and the
synergy to have you on as my first guest and what a perfect word to describe the energy
surrounding what I’m trying to create with their backstories I’ve literally jumped into my first podcast today with
you launched who’s just launched your book jump a memoir in Italy thank you so
much for being here it’s been an absolute privilege to meet you thanks to Leon and Paul they think they know put
us together and thanks you thank you to all the listeners the podcast will be up
if you’ve missed any of it and you’d like to listen to it again up on the website the I dot TV be back stories
will be every alternate Tuesday yeah Tuesday what’s to say today right it is Tuesday at 3:30 to 5:00 here on the ITV
and alternating with my other show with Bertie we have our show called exposed which is every alternate choose the same
time 3:30 to 5:00 so come on over and join in the conversation on Facebook and
Instagram if you have any other questions if you’d like to get hold of Leonard you can contact me you can contact
Leonard and are you are going to be launching it in Johannesburg right oh let people know yeah you’re relaunching
and Janice booked on the 3rd of July which is next Wednesday at love books in Melville at I think at 6:30 or 6:30 next
Wednesday so if you’re in Jonah’s book please come around it would be great meeting you
thanks Leonard and yeah everyone in Joburg please go out and support his book everyone go and buy this book you
know and is it Kindle but it’s nothing like reading a book and turning pages thank you all for listening and I will
well be here next week with Bertie for exposed and back in two weeks with fair back stories thanks so much char for now
